Secure access ...

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  • chris_j_hunter
    Automated Home Legend
    • Dec 2007
    • 1713

    Secure access ...

    wonder if anyone would be brave enough to use Idratek to control house entry rather a traditional mechanical key, using (say) push-buttons, or RFID tags, or ... ... ... perhaps not, unless it was better than a traditional key ...

    What's wrong with the traditional mechanical key ?

    Well, when mislaid, access becomes impossible without recourse to violence ... if lost & found, it can be used by anyone ... has to be stored & carried ... scratches things ... takes a hand to use, maybe two to find .... etc !

    Could it be bettered ? How ?

    This (19thC French thinking on military cyphers) seems helpful :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerckhoffs'_principle

    a cryptosystem should be secure even if everything about the system, except the key, is public knowledge ...

    must be practically, if not mathematically, indecipherable;

    must not be required to be secret ... must be able to fall into the hands of the enemy without inconvenience ...

    its key must be communicable & retainable without the help of written notes, and changeable or modifiable at the will of the correspondents ...

    must be portable, and ... not require the concourse of several people ...

    be easy to use, requiring neither mental strain nor the knowledge of a long series of rules ...

    things which are kept secret ought to be those which are least costly to change if inadvertently disclosed ...

    No answers yet, but hope to find one ...
    Last edited by chris_j_hunter; 14 May 2009, 12:10 AM.
    Our self-build - going further with HA...
  • Karam
    Automated Home Legend
    • Mar 2005
    • 863

    #2
    We do know of a customer in the US who has an electronic door lock which is operable via IDRANet as well as a traditional keypad. Some years ago we did consider building an ibutton interface module but this did not see light of day - I guess its not so much different to carrying a key unless you are going for electronic door locks anyway.

    Comment

    • chris_j_hunter
      Automated Home Legend
      • Dec 2007
      • 1713

      #3
      interesting, was unaware of iButton until the other day, when Toscal brought it up, on another thread ... but, as you say, would be only half-way from having a traditional key (less scratches, but still have to handle it & connect it) ... HF RFID tags would be better, but still need some handling ... as, indeed, would (eg) a wall-mounted keyboard ...

      which was why I was wondering what the principles might be, for doing better, and dragged-up the 19thC cypher thinking - ie: the problem seemed similar ... ie: they, too, were looking for convenient security without need of a physical key & without undue hassle ... and with an ability to withstand accidents / compromises ...

      hmmm ... the smart abilities of a good HA system could surely help here !
      Last edited by chris_j_hunter; 14 May 2009, 07:51 AM.
      Our self-build - going further with HA...

      Comment

      • Karam
        Automated Home Legend
        • Mar 2005
        • 863

        #4
        Well I guess there are some esrablished biometric methods e.g. fingerprint, iris, voice, perhaps in combination for greater accuracy. Or you could go to the length of an RF implant as per Prof. Kevin Warwick. Fingerprint readers and locks are available off the shelf but I'm not sure of efficacy.

        I attended a school meeting a while back where one of the anecdotal arguments against using fingerprint identification for school meals was that some children were copying others' onto 'gels' and then using these to fool the system into thinking they were someone else! Though I found this literally incredible it was said in all seriousness so perhaps true. If so then I think 1. Maybe we'd like to offer such enterprising children a job , 2. It makes a bit of a mockery of this technology for something more valuable than a school meal ..

        Comment

        • chris_j_hunter
          Automated Home Legend
          • Dec 2007
          • 1713

          #5
          yep, can quite believe the use of gel ... from what' we've heard, too, the software in these readers can be weak, too - eg: some of them, at least, remember the last 'print, and so are easily defeated, even without gel !

          Must say, HF RFID tags still might be best - they can be worn many ways & there's some flexibility on how close they need to be brought ...

          whatever the device, though, getting the software right would be important / key (!) ... one way might be to a have an arrangement that needs a smart response, rather than a fixed response - ie: with a behavioural basis, respecting the Kerckhoff principles (and others, yet to be discovered) ...

          wonder if something simple like a foot switch / weight-sensor / would be useful in this ... perhaps in combination with voice responses & tags & ... ?

          BTW, we need to do something ... usual entrance for us will be the garage, which already has motorised doors - and they are radio controlled, & so already in need of some enhancement security-wise !
          Last edited by chris_j_hunter; 14 May 2009, 11:43 AM.
          Our self-build - going further with HA...

          Comment

          • Paul_B
            Automated Home Legend
            • Jul 2006
            • 608

            #6
            I don't believe fingerprint technology is that new. We've been using it in computer datacentres for years. I believe the more intelligent systems also take accurate temperature readings and check for a pulse as well (gel would cause a insulation effect). My IBM laptop has a fingerprint scanner that you have to roll your finger down, so I guess this would overcome previous prints.

            In addition you could add a camera with face recognition I guess.

            Comment

            • chris_j_hunter
              Automated Home Legend
              • Dec 2007
              • 1713

              #7
              >temperature ... pulse ...

              interesting ...

              >laptop has a fingerprint scanner ...

              our work HP Compaq laptops have the same - never used, though !

              >fingerprint technology ...

              yep, far from new - and low cost devices have been offered to domestic use for two or three years, and

              of course, whatever's used has to be reliable in the context it's used ... hardware, software, weather, thieves, whatever ... which's a tall order, especially out-doors !
              Our self-build - going further with HA...

              Comment

              • toscal
                Moderator
                • Oct 2005
                • 2061

                #8
                I have a fingerprint lock on the door to my node zero. More for show than any thing else. What I did was to scan my thumb in about 10 times at slightly different angles to allow for variations in my thumb resting on the sensor. So far 10 clients haven't opened the door with their thumb. Got my on ebay for about the third of the price. Also I find that sometimes my thumb is a bit too dry so a quick lick of the thumb and then rub my thumb on my hanky and it works. I reckon its 90% effective and hasn't let any one else in.
                The mythbusters did the security special and the cheap one they had on their PC was harder to defeat than the one that was on the lock.
                The one I have also has a pin code option so you can do one or the other or both. The pin code is done via a single button.
                Fingerprint technology has a long way to go,to be 100% reliable and 100% tamper proof.
                IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                Renovation Spain Blog

                Comment

                • KirasHome
                  Automated Home Jr Member
                  • Oct 2006
                  • 37

                  #9
                  Mythbusters did a program on this a while ago and the results were not reassuring - I'm fairly sure they managed to break into all them one way or another



                  Jamie

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