xAP on the Joggler

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  • Kevin
    Moderator
    • Jan 2004
    • 558

    #31
    OK great - I'm close to the next beta and I'll drop you a copy to try.

    Cheers Kevin

    Comment

    • Kevin
      Moderator
      • Jan 2004
      • 558

      #32
      The Joggler hub and the new graphics haven't materialised yet but I'm almost ready to go with beta 4 now, likely this weekend. I stll have a few code bits and quite a lot of documentation updates to do.

      I'm slowly getting better at Flash and this new version supports loading custom external multistate button images in either SWF, JPG, GIF or PNG format as well as your own backgrounds, transparency is supported. Using external images does impact the startup time however.

      Buttons can be layed out in a grid or at any x.y position you want and can be any size (or shape) .Overlaps are supported to use larger buttons as backrounds etc. Lots of new button modes.

      You can also now create multiple pages , each with their own backgrounds and then buttons that navigate between them, these can either replace the existing page or you can popup smaller pages on top of existing ones for use in situations like Caller ID , external PIR activations or a specific lighting set within say the room page 'Kitchen' etc. Mutually exclusive button groups and pages are automatically handled for you by creating 'group' entries in the XML file.

      It's getting very capable now - and this should run on any Flash capable device and within a browser too - if you allow the security options. You can do an awful lot of customisation via the XML config file now without having to own Flash. Owning Flash will be most useful for any scripting of device interactions however. The XML config file of necessity is far more involved now but I hope still fairly easy to customise.

      At startup synchronisation occurs but any absent devices are periodically polled for a while too ensuring best validity of the state display. You can define your own xAP messages within the XML that are sent on button on/off too - useful for non BSC schema devices. BSC text devices are supported too.

      Most of the further work will be around improved graphic images and requested features as it does most of what I need now - actually much more than I originally anticipated it would be able to do . The core functionality is all there and just extra aspects liked popups that display for a fixed time etc to add. but I still need to address the level based devices (dimmers) using a popup slider and a better slider graphic. I shall probably look at supporting the xap-audio schema too - as used by SqueezeCentre etc. Drop down lists or some other selection device have been requested too.

      I need to think carefully now about the general layout and operation of the user interface - likely a set of page navigation buttons (rooms) along the bottom and some functionality buttons down the side (heating/lighting/security etc) but screen estate is at a premium on this device.

      Unfortunately I haven't sussed the sound gremlin - sounds works for a few hours/days but then go crackly - it may be a memory leak issue or even a Joggler bug... not sure.

      Arrgh - it's getting light again ZZzzz

      K
      Last edited by Kevin; 12 July 2010, 12:48 AM.

      Comment

      • BodgeIT
        Automated Home Sr Member
        • Jul 2010
        • 57

        #33
        Sounds like great work Kevin, can't wait to get my grubby hands on it.
        Tell me does this app need to run in an ubuntu image? I assume it does because of the flash.

        Remember with too much customisation, people get nervy and shy away.
        I'm hoping your app is easy to use out of the box and then look to delve deeper as I get the basics working.

        Comment

        • Kevin
          Moderator
          • Jan 2004
          • 558

          #34
          This is a Flash app and therefore runs on any platform that supports Flash which is most things except the IPhone/iTouch/iPad. It runs within Flash capable browsers too if you lower the Flash security settings. I am developing on Windows (CS4).

          Currently it connects to xAP via a small Windows application (iServer) but later that will all be handled within the Joggler as someone is testing a native Joggler xAP hub. This is required because Flash can't handle UDP.

          Ubuntu is not required and the Joggler, which was the original target for this, should be running the standard 'out of the box' image - with the addition of enabling Telnet or even better SSH and SCP.

          K

          Comment

          • Paul_B
            Automated Home Legend
            • Jul 2006
            • 608

            #35
            Having played with one of the first betas I'm looking forward to having a look at this later beta. Does seem like a very good piece of work in a short period of time.


            Paul

            Comment

            • martynwendon
              Automated Home Sr Member
              • Feb 2009
              • 57

              #36
              Originally posted by Kevin View Post
              The Joggler hub and the new graphics haven't materialised yet but I'm almost ready to go with beta 4 now, likely this weekend.

              .............

              Arrgh - it's getting light again ZZzzz

              K
              Wow, this is sounding pretty amazing now - I played with the earlier beta on my Jogglers, but had to put it on the back burner a bit as other projects became more involved..... I will need to dust them off now and focus on them again as I'm sure that they'll be a most useful addition to my xAP setup.

              I can see the huge amount of work you must have put into it too, I know from my own experience how something that you "knock up" for yourself can become a completely different animal once others start to use it.......I can see the "can you just...." emails now :-)

              Great stuff Kevin (and any others that have contributed)!


              Martyn
              My Blog

              Comment

              • Kevin
                Moderator
                • Jan 2004
                • 558

                #37
                Delayed a bit unfortunately .. blame it on the weather and extra time ;-) didn't quite get it all finished ...

                Busy week ahead but I'll get it released as soon as possible

                K
                Last edited by Kevin; 12 July 2010, 12:50 AM.

                Comment

                • BodgeIT
                  Automated Home Sr Member
                  • Jul 2010
                  • 57

                  #38
                  Ready when you are Kevin....and itching to go!

                  Comment

                  • Kevin
                    Moderator
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 558

                    #39
                    I've got some time now so working on the Beta 4. But the weekend gives me opportunities to keep adding new bits for a late Sunday release. Got the docs mostly done.

                    If anyone is like me and has some spare time this weekend and wants to play earlier with the 'in progress' version drop me an email or PM and I'll send you a build now...

                    K

                    Comment

                    • Steelercaz
                      Automated Home Jr Member
                      • Jul 2010
                      • 14

                      #40
                      Hi Kevin

                      I'm a new user to the forum, but long time lurker. I'm in the process of renovating a house, and have taken on so much useful information from the AH website in terms of wiring it up, etc, have ended up quite addicted to the idea of setting up some basic home automation - particularly energy monitoring and lighting control, at least to begin with.

                      Last week I purchased a Joggler, and am just awaiting delivery of an extra USB stick so I can setup SSH, etc, and would love to try your latest update.

                      I will be honest - I'm a Marketing Manager / Designer by trade, and whilst I can build PC's with my eyes shut when it comes to coding I know nothing other than some basic html, but am keen to learn. (Since my main reason for wanting to learn how to program is home automation, etc, I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts on the best language to start with...) I'm very techy in general - I am also our IT support at work, but the terminology of some of the advanced conversations on here leave me a bit behind, though with a few months of lurking I'm getting much better!

                      I have on question RE this app/xAP - I know you're familiar with the AlertMe product, and I was wondering if there is any potential for the xAP that's driving this being able to control the AlertMe home plugs, etc? (Which I believe use Zigbee?) I really want to setup an automated home, but having to gut & renovate the whole house has left me pretty poor. So, I'm looking at X10 to start with but really like the AlertMe energy product - and am wondering if xAP would have the potential to 'combine' this all so that it can be controlled from one app, such as this one or an iPhone app, etc? If so I'd be ready to order the AlertMe basic energy kit and some X10 components now...

                      Apologies if that's a bit of a ramble - work is manic today, and my head's a little fried! Thanks in advance
                      My fledgling blog about the technology side of renovating our first house: http://firsttechhome.wordpress.com/

                      Comment

                      • Kevin
                        Moderator
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 558

                        #41
                        Hi 'Steelercaz'

                        Welcome out of the shadows...

                        To use the xAP Joggler app you will need to have the devices that you need to control or monitor talking xAP already. xAP conduits, applications and devices exist for many technologies including in your case X10 but not Alert Me.

                        I have looked at Alert Me many times and studied their developer API but it is fundamentally lacking in terms of realtime integration with other home automation setups. I haven't checked recently but I haven't heard it's changed either. The ZigBee is closed/proprietory - as are most implementations - but the bigger problem is there is no way of getting realtime information out of the system - for example when devices turn on or off.

                        This is because Alert Me require you to access the system via their (chargeable) servers and not directly. So you need permanent Internet connectivity and you have to constantly poll their servers to see if anything has changed state, which is totally unsatisfactory. They also implement a lockout period to avoid you doing this excessively.

                        So whilst certainly appealing as a contained system it didn't suit me at all and doesn't lend itself to xAP control which is purposed for inter device/system interactions.

                        I do use some ZigBee modules (Plugwise) that offer appliance switching and power consumption measurement/logging and although these have similar issues (proprietory ZigBee implementation and poll status) they are useable directly on your network via a http API. There has been quite sucessful work done to reverse engineer the protocol too. Because there is a HomeSeer plugin , and also a xAP plugin for same then the Plugwise adaptors become xAP.. and hence Joggler controllable.

                        K

                        Comment

                        • Kevin
                          Moderator
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 558

                          #42
                          xAP Joggler beta 4

                          I have just sent beta 4 to the 'trimmed' beta list .

                          If you are wishing to participate (and contribute) to the beta testing and I didn't email you then please make sure I have your email address - send me a PM or email.

                          Those who tested the pre beta over the weekend - there are no changes - except to the instructions which I keep updating ...

                          enjoy K

                          PS I will post a list of know outstanding bugs/ fixes / ToDo's etc soon - they are listed at the start of the .FLA file but that's not currently in the beta zip.
                          Last edited by Kevin; 19 July 2010, 08:28 PM.

                          Comment

                          • Steelercaz
                            Automated Home Jr Member
                            • Jul 2010
                            • 14

                            #43
                            Hi Kevin

                            Thanks for the speedy response. Disappointing to hear about the serious drawbacks of AlertMe, at least for Home Automation, but thanks for the feedback - ultimately I know that whilst starting small I'll soon end up adding more & more as I learn, and the limitation of such a closed system would frustrate the hell out of me!

                            So, whilst I've done a hell of a lot of reading lately about the various HA options, I don't *think* I've seen an affordable energy monitoring device/system that is integrated into a basic X10 system and be accessible via the web - any ideas?

                            Or, as xAP is clearly a protocol that integrates various systems, would you (or anyone!) be able to recommend something that doesn't use X10 but could, even if not right from the start, be integrated into an xAP-controlled system?

                            Ultimately, as a starter I would definitely like to be able to monitor energy usage, preferably remotely, plus control some basic lighting requirements - on/off/dim for mainly standalone lamps, but also light switch-controlled room lights in some rooms. I would love the system to be able to, initially or in the future, have the capability to create preset scenes.

                            I think the work you're doing on the Joggler app is brilliant, so xAP 'enabled' would be a goal! iPhone control would also be perfect.

                            Feel free to just point me in the right direction - I don't want to eat up lots more of your time! As I say, I'm reading a lot, but it's the possible integration of the various technologies that's really hard to research when you don't have a starting point in mind.

                            Thanks again,
                            Caroline
                            My fledgling blog about the technology side of renovating our first house: http://firsttechhome.wordpress.com/

                            Comment

                            • Kevin
                              Moderator
                              • Jan 2004
                              • 558

                              #44
                              In the beta distribution there is a basic XML file included ( xAPconfig.xml some details in the documentation).

                              What I failed to mention is that there is an element in that file called "button_example" that was intended just to list and explain the possible key parameters within a button. You can safely ignore everything between the <button_example> ... </button_example> tags and indeed delete this should you wish to make things tidier. I intended to remove it but forgot.

                              There is also a more complex file called xApconfigLARGE.xml - which you can try by renaming it xAPconfig.xml. It should draw the screen OK and the page toggle buttons along the bottom should work - but wont do anything useful as it is customised for my own xAP setup. Perusal of this file should help you get some ideas on how things are structured in the XML file.

                              K

                              Comment

                              • Kevin
                                Moderator
                                • Jan 2004
                                • 558

                                #45
                                Hi Caroline,

                                Creating an ideal HA system is still a labour of love and usually a compromise between technologies, desires, money and time. The ability for many different systems to integrate seamlessly isn't there yet, and may never be for both technical and commercial reasons.

                                xAP is still very much a HA enthusiasts tick item. It's goal is to provide the cross product interaction in a standardised and expandable way but it still needs quite an investment in understanding and time to usefully implement . Much as we would like it to be transparent / plug and play... it isn't.

                                So from where you're starting from at the moment I wouldn't place too much insistence on xAP support. Products like Alert Me are very consumer friendly. I am not a fan of X10 - although that is where I started from. Its lack of reliability, status information and confirmed actions are serious problems - particularly in this large old house. IIRC Alert Me does not offer a lamp dimming solution and if you are truly retrofit then wired solutions are probably out so you're left with X10 or RF - and my choice would likely be RF (Z-Wave, ZigBee or other two way system). The range of products can be restrictive though.

                                What I would suggest is posting again here, but in a more general forum and asking for suggestions . There are many software solutions at various pricepoints. Or indeed are you a member on the the UKHA mail list ?

                                Most of the commercial HA applications have a plugin for xAP and so if you can choose one that supports your intended hardware then that usually means it can be exposed via xAP which is useful for your future aspirations eg with the Joggler.

                                I do like Plugwise and it offers most of what you need but, like ALert Me only with appliance type modules (no dimmers yet). The switches are limited and no sockets or wall switches with relay/dimmers inbuilt. .

                                I would seriously still consider Alert Me (again no dimmers) as the lack of realtime event feedback may not be as bad as it first appears . It integrates security and an iPhone app nicely too.

                                Also take a look at Harmony and their range of supported hardware ( although there is no xAP plugin). I use HomeSeer but when you add up HS + their iPhone Client it not an inexpensive solution.

                                BTW The iPhone is always going to be a 'no' for any Flash based control application.

                                I'll think some more too - on what's out there - do you want integrated security (alarm functionality) too ?

                                K

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