Heat Genius

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  • Hot
    Automated Home Sr Member
    • Oct 2014
    • 50

    #16
    How to Access Advanced Settings

    Originally posted by steveing View Post
    Hi

    I have just had the system installed last week but cannot see anywhere on the app where it shows you the state of the battery's in the LC13 can you tell me where that info is

    Thanks
    You click on the button in the top right corner that looks like a three horizontal lines. This is the same button where you go to access the Heat Genius heating Charts and then you click the Setup button - this will refresh your screen to put your system into Advanced Settings mode and now you click again on the three horizontal lined button and you will see the Advanced Settings - click this button and you will see the status of all your batteries and your whole system and how your Heat Genius is interrogating the devices that make up your system - this is a great feature that I use frequently. You can also adjust the sensitivity of your sensors etc.
    Last edited by Hot; 15 October 2014, 01:35 PM. Reason: Clearer and improved instructions
    I am totally independent writer and my writing is not skewed in any way by receiving payment for my writing. I reduce my gas bills by using Heat Genius Smart Intelligent Heating Controls with more efficient Column radiators.

    Comment

    • Hot
      Automated Home Sr Member
      • Oct 2014
      • 50

      #17
      Heat Genius - Link is now fixed

      Originally posted by jdenver View Post
      Cant get the link to work 'hot' above
      I hope you can now access my Heat Genius Review - if not please let me know.
      Last edited by Hot; 15 October 2014, 01:45 PM.
      I am totally independent writer and my writing is not skewed in any way by receiving payment for my writing. I reduce my gas bills by using Heat Genius Smart Intelligent Heating Controls with more efficient Column radiators.

      Comment

      • steveing
        Automated Home Lurker
        • May 2014
        • 4

        #18
        Originally posted by Hot View Post
        You click on the button in the top right corner that looks like a three horizontal lines. This is the same button where you go to access the Heat Genius heating Charts and then you click the Setup button - this will refresh your screen to put your system into Advanced Settings mode and now you click again on the three horizontal lined button and you will see the Advanced Settings - click this button and you will see the status of all your batteries and your whole system and how your Heat Genius is interrogating the devices that make up your system - this is a great feature that I use frequently. You can also adjust the sensitivity of your sensors etc.

        Hi

        Thanks for that

        Comment

        • DGE
          Automated Home Lurker
          • Dec 2014
          • 6

          #19
          Johannes
          In advance, my thanks for any best endeavors help you can give. My project is for a House in Multiple Occupation, called an hmo if you haven't come across it. There are 6 bedrooms and shared lounge/dining (one room), 2 bathrooms and a kitchen, utility bills are included in the rent. It is newly renovated and heating has been left very basic to give me time to learn what I need, there is a Baxi Duo-tec Combi 40 HE A boiler, all radiators have TRVs.

          I think I have developed a reasonable understanding of Heat Genius and evohome which were my short list, but evohome is brilliant but has one major flaw that makes it almost useless. Tenants in properties like this where rent is included turn the heating up to the max and when it gets too hot they open a window.

          My questions revolve around how tenants could circumvent the controls. The new feature which allows a radiator to be turned up is good, my intention is not that tenants should be cold, it is to cut down waste.

          I have been trying to as HG the following questions/clarifications with no success.

          - Confirm that a schedule/temperature can be set per zone
          - How many zones can the system support?
          - How many schedule changes per zone?
          - The schedule/temperature settings can be locked down at an internet level
          - It will be possible soon for the radiator to override the setting for a pre-set time, do you have any detail on this?
          - is there any other way people in the house can override the schedule or temperature settings.
          - What exactly is the role of the thermostat where all the key radiators have controlled valves?
          - Is the thermostat necessary?
          - What is the effect if the tenants simply turn the main thermostat up to it's maximum setting?
          - Where does the master control lie, the thermostat, radiator valve or the room sensor?
          - Is there any way the system can tell me if a thermostatic valve has been removed?
          For example, does it show as a fault and is there a notification of some sort?

          If it looks like this would work my most likely move is to buy a minimum system, set it up and try to break it so any answers you have will help me to move forward. Thank you.

          Comment

          • SensibleHeatUK
            Moderator
            • Feb 2009
            • 228

            #20
            I cannot comment on HG capabilities, but when using Evo in an HMO environment you can set the maximum and minimum setpoint levels on a per-zone basis, and use the window-open function (which switches off the heating if there is a sudden drop in air temperature) to help prevent unnecessary waste while still allowing an amount of tenant adjustment.

            As HG came from Germany I'm certain it too has a window interlock function as this was a mandatory requirement under European regulations (or so I have been told).
            Sensible Heat
            SensibleHeat.co.uk

            Comment

            • DGE
              Automated Home Lurker
              • Dec 2014
              • 6

              #21
              Sensible Heat
              My thanks for your response, you probably know that all responses are valuable at this point in my decision making. I should maybe have defined the limitation in evohome rather than leave it so vague for which I apologise.

              evohome is brilliant and in my own home it would do a fantastic job, in my hmo the tenants would be able to turn their heating up (which is good) but it won't reset to the schedule until the next change. For example if I drop the heating overnight at 11pm, the tenants can turn all the radiators up at 11:05 and they will be on all night until the schedules change the following morning. Because evohome can only handle 6 schedules per zone per day, I cannot stop this. If there were more changes available it could be made to work.

              If you think that tenants won't do this, you probably don't rent a house like this. I had a tenant in the last 2 weeks who turned her radiator up full blast, opened her window and went away for a week. If there is a a weakness, they will find it.

              If you think evohome has a way round the heating being left on for hours on end with no one present or asleep, I would love to hear about it. Other than this I thought the system was excellent.

              Comment

              • SensibleHeatUK
                Moderator
                • Feb 2009
                • 228

                #22
                You are absolutely right about the time program limitations, and the only way to achieve anything better with Evo would be using additional integration via IFTTT or via the unofficial API "hacks" discussed in the other threads. Neither of these would be my choice for 100% reliability for a system that needs to operate without constant manual monitoring & intervention.
                Sensible Heat
                SensibleHeat.co.uk

                Comment

                • Hot
                  Automated Home Sr Member
                  • Oct 2014
                  • 50

                  #23
                  Heat Genius Capabilities

                  Originally posted by DGE View Post
                  Johannes
                  In advance, my thanks for any best endeavors help you can give. My project is for a House in Multiple Occupation, called an hmo if you haven't come across it. There are 6 bedrooms and shared lounge/dining (one room), 2 bathrooms and a kitchen, utility bills are included in the rent. It is newly renovated and heating has been left very basic to give me time to learn what I need, there is a Baxi Duo-tec Combi 40 HE A boiler, all radiators have TRVs.

                  I think I have developed a reasonable understanding of Heat Genius and evohome which were my short list, but evohome is brilliant but has one major flaw that makes it almost useless. Tenants in properties like this where rent is included turn the heating up to the max and when it gets too hot they open a window.

                  My questions revolve around how tenants could circumvent the controls. The new feature which allows a radiator to be turned up is good, my intention is not that tenants should be cold, it is to cut down waste.

                  I have been trying to as HG the following questions/clarifications with no success.

                  - Confirm that a schedule/temperature can be set per zone
                  - How many zones can the system support?
                  - How many schedule changes per zone?
                  - The schedule/temperature settings can be locked down at an internet level
                  - It will be possible soon for the radiator to override the setting for a pre-set time, do you have any detail on this?
                  - is there any other way people in the house can override the schedule or temperature settings.
                  - What exactly is the role of the thermostat where all the key radiators have controlled valves?
                  - Is the thermostat necessary?
                  - What is the effect if the tenants simply turn the main thermostat up to it's maximum setting?
                  - Where does the master control lie, the thermostat, radiator valve or the room sensor?
                  - Is there any way the system can tell me if a thermostatic valve has been removed?
                  For example, does it show as a fault and is there a notification of some sort?

                  If it looks like this would work my most likely move is to buy a minimum system, set it up and try to break it so any answers you have will help me to move forward. Thank you.
                  DGE - Before I continue to answer your questions I would like to assure you that Heat Genius is a UK company and they designed and manufacture their HG system controller in Birmingham and all their software and algorithm are designed in-house by their own programmers.

                  I can confirm that schedule/temperature can be set/ configured for each Zone individually.

                  The HG system can currently handle 30 zones.

                  There are unlimited schedule changes for each zone.

                  I know you can lock in the heat setting at a Internet level - this is very important as you don't want anyone to do anything silly with your heating.

                  I am aware that Heat Genius are working on a way to enable occupants to be able to overwrite the HG controller to a pre-configured level but then the Administrator of the system will be able to set the maximum temperature allowable to be set by the occupants. You can also lock down the maximum heat setting allowable on the Smart Thermostat Radiator Valve (TRV) controller. I am nearly sure you can do the same with the overwrite or backup manual room thermostat that is shipped with the system. I shall look better into this for you as I am interested to find out more about it for myself.

                  The clever thing about the Heat Genius is that their Multisensor takes care of measuring the room temperature. There is nothing on this small device that the occupier can change. If for example they remove the sensor from the wall or it falls off the wall it stops working but you as the administrator will get a system generated message that you can view through the Internet app. You will also be able to see the status of all the batteries and workings of all the devices that the system is made up of. You cannot operate the system in smart mode without using the Multisensors and the Smart TRVs. This is where the heat savings, Zones and intelligence of the system comes from.

                  Your tenants should not be able to raise the temperature without access to the Heat Genius controller - however there is a way to overwrite the system but I am sure you can lock in the maximum temperature allowed.

                  The master control lies with the Heat Genius Internet controller in your case you are the Administrator. If the system loses control with the HG controller the tenants can manually raise the temperature using to buttons of the Smart TRVs but again I am sure you can set the maximum or to lock in the maximum temperature allowed. Again I shall check this out for you on my own system.

                  If you have any more questions please, don't hesitate to contact me again and I shall do my utmost to answer your questions to my best ability.
                  Last edited by Hot; 15 December 2014, 12:08 PM. Reason: Correcting text errors
                  I am totally independent writer and my writing is not skewed in any way by receiving payment for my writing. I reduce my gas bills by using Heat Genius Smart Intelligent Heating Controls with more efficient Column radiators.

                  Comment

                  • DGE
                    Automated Home Lurker
                    • Dec 2014
                    • 6

                    #24
                    Hot
                    The only point if the system that may be a weakness is that thermostat and what happens if the tenants simply set it to the max. If you get any more information on that I'd love to know but I think I will go ahead with a basic setup and test it for myself, it really looks like it will do the job even if one or two areas are less automated that I would like.

                    HG have told me that in the next version of software a tenant will be able to increase the temperature at the radiator for a length of time configurable in the app. This will be perfect for what I am trying to do.

                    Thanks for your feedback.

                    Comment

                    • Hot
                      Automated Home Sr Member
                      • Oct 2014
                      • 50

                      #25
                      Originally posted by DGE View Post
                      Hot
                      The only point if the system that may be a weakness is that thermostat and what happens if the tenants simply set it to the max. If you get any more information on that I'd love to know but I think I will go ahead with a basic setup and test it for myself, it really looks like it will do the job even if one or two areas are less automated that I would like.

                      HG have told me that in the next version of software a tenant will be able to increase the temperature at the radiator for a length of time configurable in the app. This will be perfect for what I am trying to do.

                      Thanks for your feedback.
                      I have checked my system instructions that came with my LC13 Smart TRV and the good news is that you can configure its setting to be Locked and Tamper Proof. This will prevent any of your occupiers from changing its maximum allowed setting.

                      I forgot to mention it earlier on but the LC13 has Open Window function as standard.
                      Last edited by Hot; 6 December 2014, 10:35 PM.
                      I am totally independent writer and my writing is not skewed in any way by receiving payment for my writing. I reduce my gas bills by using Heat Genius Smart Intelligent Heating Controls with more efficient Column radiators.

                      Comment

                      • Rameses
                        Industry Expert
                        • Nov 2014
                        • 446

                        #26
                        Originally posted by DGE View Post
                        Sensible Heat
                        My thanks for your response, you probably know that all responses are valuable at this point in my decision making. I should maybe have defined the limitation in evohome rather than leave it so vague for which I apologise.

                        evohome is brilliant and in my own home it would do a fantastic job, in my hmo the tenants would be able to turn their heating up (which is good) but it won't reset to the schedule until the next change. For example if I drop the heating overnight at 11pm, the tenants can turn all the radiators up at 11:05 and they will be on all night until the schedules change the following morning. Because evohome can only handle 6 schedules per zone per day, I cannot stop this. If there were more changes available it could be made to work.

                        If you think that tenants won't do this, you probably don't rent a house like this. I had a tenant in the last 2 weeks who turned her radiator up full blast, opened her window and went away for a week. If there is a a weakness, they will find it.

                        If you think evohome has a way round the heating being left on for hours on end with no one present or asleep, I would love to hear about it. Other than this I thought the system was excellent.
                        You could use iftttt to reset the evohome back to the schedule at midnight

                        Also it has a an open window function built in

                        And you can limit or min the temp in that zone ie no more than 23

                        And you can lockout the controller with a pin

                        And you can use ifttt to send a text if the above happens. (Or you will once the new triggers come)
                        Last edited by Rameses; 6 December 2014, 10:13 PM.
                        getconnected.honeywell.com | I work for Honeywell. Any posts I make are purely to help if I can. Any personal views expressed are my own

                        Comment

                        • DGE
                          Automated Home Lurker
                          • Dec 2014
                          • 6

                          #27
                          Hot
                          Thanks for the extra pointers, I will play with the features when I get the product, assuming that I can get it of course. I have to be very, very careful with some of these, a good landlord wants his tenants to be warm so too much locking out is dangerous. On the other hand I want to reduce waste. It will be interesting.

                          You have been an enormous help. Thanks

                          Comment

                          • DGE
                            Automated Home Lurker
                            • Dec 2014
                            • 6

                            #28
                            Rameses
                            Thank you for taking time to respond. If there is a Honeywell IFTTT recipe to reset the schedule I must confess that I missed it. I will probably look again but if the HG system does what I think, it will rest after a time period so a tenant can have the heating on for half an hour or an hour depending on what I set. This is much more powerful than resetting at a time when the override may have been used just 2 minutes before.

                            Have you actually seen this implemented to, say, reset every hour on the hour.

                            I had seen the open window feature in both products, I admit to being a bit sceptical about how successful either of them will be, I also saw the max temperature lock although I wasn't sure how tamperproof it was.

                            New IFTTT triggers will be interesting, I haven't seen anything on the Internet about what they are or when they will be released. I'm not looking for too many futures, all products in this arena will evolve. My problem is immediate.

                            Comment

                            • Hot
                              Automated Home Sr Member
                              • Oct 2014
                              • 50

                              #29
                              Heat Genius Advice

                              Originally posted by DGE View Post
                              Hot
                              Thanks for the extra pointers, I will play with the features when I get the product, assuming that I can get it of course. I have to be very, very careful with some of these, a good landlord wants his tenants to be warm so too much locking out is dangerous. On the other hand I want to reduce waste. It will be interesting.

                              You have been an enormous help. Thanks
                              DGE - I am glad that I could answer your questions. I am sure you will be surprised how powerful and flexible HG is - it is best for you to play around with the system to find out for yourself.

                              I have done the open window test few times and tried to fool the system but to no avail. This part of the system is bullet-proof and few of my friends and family member have also tried but without a success.

                              I have been in touch with Alasdair, CEO of Heat Genius and he told me they were inundated with orders for their system and since July they have doubled their sales month on month. There are few more improvement soon to be put into Beta testing and I for one will be looking forward to the next few upgrades as I have suggested or put forward few changes that I want to see soon in one of their updates.

                              I am sure you will get your system shipped fairly soon but keep my informed in case I can help to move things forward a bit for you.
                              Last edited by Hot; 7 December 2014, 07:59 PM. Reason: Correcting text errors
                              I am totally independent writer and my writing is not skewed in any way by receiving payment for my writing. I reduce my gas bills by using Heat Genius Smart Intelligent Heating Controls with more efficient Column radiators.

                              Comment

                              • DGE
                                Automated Home Lurker
                                • Dec 2014
                                • 6

                                #30
                                Hot
                                Another question if I may. It looks like the TRVs I have may not be compatible so I will have to run some kind of test to make sure I buy what I need.

                                I assume that HG ship the sensor only for the Danfoss valve, not the valve body as well, but it would help if you could confirm that. This would mean that if my valves do need replacing, I would be best to get the whole valve and have the job done in one.

                                This then means that I have to make sure I get the right valves, my approach to installations like this is usually to single source everything but that looks impossible in this case. I haven't been able to find precise product details on the Heat Genius site but I can see you mention the LG-13, do you have a manufacturers part number by any chance, this would not be the time to have the wrong parts fitted.

                                Comment

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