Problems installing Evohome & PrePlumbed Cylinder

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  • v_j_uk
    Automated Home Lurker
    • Jan 2015
    • 8

    Problems installing Evohome & PrePlumbed Cylinder

    Hi All

    So i brought all the honeywell kit back in march of last year ready for when we had our extension done and new boiler etc... anyway with delays and all we only had the boiler and cylinder go live before christmas. When it came to setting up the evohome kit its been a nightmare and wish if i could return it all back. When it was brought we were told that the hot water kit could be installed on any cylinder without any issues and it could be setup by any experienced plumber who has used honeywell stuff. Unfortunately the hot water kit does not work with the preplumbed range tribune TI250p cylinder installed as it would void the warranty if the plumber was to cut out the thermostat they have preplumbed and its a safety stat as its a unvented indirect cylinder, range over the phone have said they do not recommend this and have not heard from honeywell regarding the hot water kit for thier R&D team to look into being used safely with their cylinders.

    I really want to get it all working properly but do not want void any warranties and have been really frustrated contacting honeywell, range tribune and valliant trying to get it all working together. So was hoping that maybe someone on here could maybe help... i have read that some ppl have not used the insersion thermostat on preplumbed cylinders and used the other stat and put it on the outlet pipe? Evohome specialist has told me he can set it up so that it doesnt read the cylinder temp but jsut switch on and off? both solutions honeywell have told me they can not recommend or support. So would appriecate some guidence or if anyone has been able to do it and explain how that would help.

    Thanks
  • HenGus
    Automated Home Legend
    • May 2014
    • 1001

    #2
    I had this problem with my unvented OSO Hot Water cylinder. It is not a warranty issue per se. Your plumber cannot legally take out the unvented tank safety systems. What he can do is wire the HWK in series. OSO advised me to get my installer to push the probe up the tank via the access panel. The probe sits against the tank and is held there by the foam insulation. My tank thermostat is set at 65C. The Evohome controller then controls my HW in the range 55 to 60C. Should the HWK controller fail and the temperature rises, the valve will close at 65C as the existing tank thermostat cuts in. If this fails, there is a further safety cut out at, I think, 85C. It is worth persevering as I calculate that the HWK is saving me 25% on gas.

    Comment

    • v_j_uk
      Automated Home Lurker
      • Jan 2015
      • 8

      #3
      Thanks, not sure if the range tribune has an access panel will need to check.... Honeywell seem to think I won't be able to get the hot water kit but will confirm with their engineer.. All very frustrating

      Comment

      • garmcqui
        Automated Home Guru
        • Jan 2015
        • 119

        #4
        Working fine here with a Range Tribune unvented cylinder.

        Leave the existing thermostat in place. There should be other access holes for temperature probes/thermostats, usually near the top of the tank.

        I have wired up my Hot Water Kit in series with the existing safety thermostat, so it is always in control (as it always was). This way it's using the Honeywell evo probe more as a monitor than a control. I have my Evohome water temperature set to 75C, but the existing thermostat will click off at 60-65C as it always did, thus cutting off power to the zone valve and hence the boiler demand.

        Comment

        • v_j_uk
          Automated Home Lurker
          • Jan 2015
          • 8

          #5
          Thanks garmcqui, was it a preplumbed cylinder you have? Any chance you could take a photo?

          Comment

          • garmcqui
            Automated Home Guru
            • Jan 2015
            • 119

            #6
            IMG_6063.jpg

            Yes it was a pre-plumbed cylinder. I've attached a pic above, you can see the Evo probe (black wire) going into one of the cylinder wells near the top.

            We also have solar heating, so that adds a fair bit of pipework. It's not as complicated as it looks.

            IMG_6064.jpg IMG_6066.jpg IMG_6065.jpg

            And the last few photos show the location points for the hot water wireless sender, and BDR91's... all 30cm apart (just!)
            Attached Files
            Last edited by garmcqui; 16 January 2015, 07:15 PM.

            Comment

            • The EVOHOME Shop
              Site Sponsor
              • Dec 2014
              • 483

              #7
              Originally posted by v_j_uk View Post
              Thanks, not sure if the range tribune has an access panel will need to check.... Honeywell seem to think I won't be able to get the hot water kit but will confirm with their engineer.. All very frustrating
              No frustration required - Hot Water Kits will work with any cylinder (vented or unvented)! I am finding 'engineers' lack imagination and initiative these days!

              Comment

              • v_j_uk
                Automated Home Lurker
                • Jan 2015
                • 8

                #8
                Thanks garmcqui for the photos.... photo of my current setup at home, i need to move the bdr91 so they are further apart, but they are not active yet... do you think i can insert the probe into the inlet/outlet hole that is unused near the top by the logo? And is it a case of just inserting it?

                evohome shop - if you was in london i would have been calling you up to install the kit!

                DSCN1393.jpg
                Last edited by v_j_uk; 19 January 2015, 03:59 PM.

                Comment

                • The EVOHOME Shop
                  Site Sponsor
                  • Dec 2014
                  • 483

                  #9
                  Originally posted by v_j_uk View Post
                  evohome shop - if you was in london i would have been calling you up to install the kit!
                  Thanks for the compliment!

                  I know it sounds harsh, but in the cases of unvented cylinders with no thermostat pocket at 1/3 to 1/2 way up the cylinder I would just cut a small hole in the outer cylinder with a 25-30mm hole saw (this cylinder is has a metal outer skin, foam insulation and then a stainless steel inner), dig out the insulation, put the probe against the stainless steel inner tank, backfill with insulation and silicone the bit you cut out back into place.

                  An alternative (if you are not quite as brave) is electrically disconnect the bottom immersion heater, remove the thermostat probe from the immersion heater and use this aperture for the Hot Water Kit insertion probe!

                  Using the gas boiler to heat that cylinder is always going to be more cost effective than immersion/electricity (unless you have PV with an immersun fitted) and at the day as you have two immersion heaters you would always have one still as backup if the gas failed!

                  Comment

                  • v_j_uk
                    Automated Home Lurker
                    • Jan 2015
                    • 8

                    #10
                    don't think the plumber is brave enough to do that! Also will this not invalidate the warranty on the cylinder?
                    And unfortunately I do have a PV setup that's connected to an immersun!
                    The only outlet is the secondary outlet... but I guess this can not be used as the probe will not sit on the inner tank.
                    Honeywell are trying to get out of helping by saying a site survey should of taken place .....
                    How long does it take from wales to london?!
                    Last edited by v_j_uk; 21 January 2015, 05:16 PM.

                    Comment

                    • The EVOHOME Shop
                      Site Sponsor
                      • Dec 2014
                      • 483

                      #11
                      Originally posted by v_j_uk View Post
                      don't think the plumber is brave enough to do that! Also will this not invalidate the warranty on the cylinder?
                      And unfortunately I do have a PV setup that's connected to an immersun!
                      The only outlet is the secondary outlet... but I guess this can not be used as the probe will not sit on the inner tank.
                      Honeywell are trying to get out of helping by saying a site survey should of taken place .....
                      How long does it take from wales to london?!
                      It's about 5 hours from here to London (we were at Bracknell not long ago with Honeywell and Installer Magazine)! If I wasn't so busy running the shop, I may have considered your request!

                      OK, so if you plumber needs brave pills maybe another idea... What about putting the insertion probe against the brass/metal under the lower immersion heater cap? The brass should be the same temperature of the water inside the cylinder and should relay temperature back to the CS92 just fine. Obviously keep the probe away from the 230v wires/the element and you would have to try and wedge the side of the insertion probe against the brass (use some heat conductive paste also), but this should work!

                      Obviously make sure the immersion heater is electrically isolated before trying this!
                      Last edited by The EVOHOME Shop; 21 January 2015, 08:30 PM. Reason: bad spelling

                      Comment

                      • v_j_uk
                        Automated Home Lurker
                        • Jan 2015
                        • 8

                        #12
                        Sorry for the extremely late reply.... had some issues with the extension so this kinda got left behind.....
                        Havent tried this out yet... so can the probe touch the brass thats outside of the heater cap, theres abit showing thats between the cap and the cylinder? or do i need to open the cap and make sure its touching the inside?

                        Also any chance your in london/es*** anytime in the near future?!

                        Comment

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