Evohome range issues

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Cchris
    Automated Home Sr Member
    • Nov 2015
    • 95

    #16
    Its not on a stand because its in the middle of the corridor to the bedroom, though I appreciate this may limit signal and reception slightly. The transmission does not seem to be an issue, as an RF check shows that all the valves get a signal from the controller - usually 2 and above. But the controller does not receive all that well from the valves. Hence why I think the issue may be the transmission power of the HR92's, or the antenna sensitivity of the controller.

    It was a Honeywell Connected Specialist that installed the system. They also have a contact at Honeywell and have posed a few questions regarding other setup limitations but it seems that the system is just that little bit limited in terms of what we would have liked to do (individual controllers activate individual relays, and therefor only the upstairs controller would open the zone vale to upstairs - though its a non issue as long as every radiator has a HR92 and there are no open circuits anyway.)

    Im not sure what the installer or I can do to overcome this problem (other than try the table, change of batteries etc). Im at a point that if I move the controller left, it loses comms with the devices to the right. If I move it right, it loses comms with the devices to the left. I fear the only solution is another controller and a clunky three site setup on the app, or some modification to the honeywell antenna. A simple plugin booster box for the signal would make things so much easier and open the product up to use in much larger environments imho.

    Comment

    • Cchris
      Automated Home Sr Member
      • Nov 2015
      • 95

      #17
      Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
      I wonder whether you'd be better off splitting your house by end, rather than by floor. i.e. have everything up one end (upstairs and down) running off one controller, and everything at the other end running off the other?

      P.

      The installer and I thought about that, but sadly can't do it because the relay controls are at one end. If I we a controller looking after everything at the right hand side of the house, it can't communicate with the relays that are all the way over to the left. If I move either controller further to the right than they are, they will drop comms with the relays and DHW temp sensor. If the boiler and relay controlls were central in the house then that setup would probably work very well.

      We found this out when we put the downstairs controller in the main entrance hall - it got a signal to turn the DHW on, but then lost signal with relays and the temp sensor - so the hot water just kept getting hotter and hotter until it hit the temperature set on the thermostat on the tank (we left the original thermostat cut out in parallel with the Evo home one and set it at a higher temp so in the event of just this scenario where the controller loses comms during a HW heating cycle, we dont go blowing the pressure valve instead)

      I appreciate its all very "first world problems" that my home appears too large for my automated heating system, so Im not going to be too miffed, but would just like to see what can be done to overcome the issue and perhaps even help Honeywell so they dont have to worry about this issue in future.

      Comment

      • paulockenden
        Automated Home Legend
        • Apr 2015
        • 1719

        #18
        Another thought - do you have any wireless headphones, speakers, video senders, baby monitors, etc? (basically, something that transmits continuously rather than in bursts as you'd find with data). Only, I have some wireless headphones that really make Evohome struggle when I plug them in.

        As to the distance between controller and relay, I know it's a hack but you CAN connect the relay to the relevant valve via a VERY long bit of wire (i.e. the relay doesn't have to sit next to the zoning equipment).

        Normally I'd suggest opening up the controller and installing a better antenna. But a) you'd lose your warranty, and b) we already know, especially from the comments here from the Honeywell guys, just how fussy/fragile the comms side of Evohome is.

        Comment

        • paulockenden
          Automated Home Legend
          • Apr 2015
          • 1719

          #19
          Yet another thought (I'll stop these soon, I promise!). You can partially solve the multi-controller problem by connecting your two or three Evo setups to something like Domoticz, and ignoring the Evo controllers and apps.

          Domoticz will either work by polling the Honeywell cloud servers, or better still with an (or maybe three!) HGI80s talking directly to your systsem(s).

          The Domoticz interface is nice and intuitive - perhaps worth a google?

          P.

          Comment

          • Cchris
            Automated Home Sr Member
            • Nov 2015
            • 95

            #20
            Happy to keep hearing any suggestions or ideas

            There are baby monitors, but the signal drops happen at all times, and not just when these are on. No wireless headphones - there are some dect phones, but the evohome issues were happening before these were bought. There is only a wireless router and wireless access point (2.4Ghz wifi suffers similar range issues in the home), but the evohome issues were again present before the repeater was put in.

            We've already extended the relay control boxes about 6-7m from the boiler to get them the other side of a cavity wall. There would be no route to get them closer to the centre of the home without taking them up through into the loft, round and back down into possibly the master bedroom wardrobe area, as that is the closest stud wall to the centre of the home.. Though I'd be wary of doing that with the DHW temperature sensor as the resistance wires that long could mess up the reading considerably I would have thought.

            Ill certainly be researching those interfaces when possible, Im also interested in the thread thats discussing making a pc interface. I love my gadgets, and Im thinking of different uses for the IT equipment in the home (Ill be ordering my second 42U rack shortly).

            My mind has been wandering into relams of fantasy, but it IS technically possible to have a microphone setup around the home, incorporated to voice recognition software and feed this directly into the PC based solution for evohome. The ultimate aim being to walk into the house and say something like "Evohome, Kitchen 21 degrees until 10pm please". This would then also interface with a sonos or similar system, switch to the relevant source, and playback a message through the speakers in that room to acknowledge my request. Im sure this IS technically possible, but its way beyond my programming ability (I never really went that far beyond "helo world"), but boy would I pay good money to have Jarvis tell me my kitchen wiill be 21 degrees or my hot water is up to temperature.

            For now though, I'd be content with the controller getting a reliable and steady signal from all the zones. Mastering walking before I try and go running.

            Comment

            • paulockenden
              Automated Home Legend
              • Apr 2015
              • 1719

              #21
              I'm intrigued by the comment from Honeywell that stamped on the idea of an 868Mhz repeater.

              As far as I'm aware, these come in two flavours: device aware and dumb. The former is designed to look for certain signals, and only repeat those, the latter will repeat everything it seems on a specific frequency. I guess you might then end up with an HR92 seeing two slightly out of phase versions of the same signal, so perhaps that's the problem.

              I've also seen a device that uses powerline networking, so you plug a receiver into a socket in one room, and a transmitter in another, and it channels anything in the 868Mhz band from one to the other (think it's only one way though, so wouldn't solve your issues).

              Maybe adding an external antenna to the controller would be the most effective solution. There's the briefest of glances at the circuit board here, but not enough to see the antenna configuration (unless anyone has sharper eyes than me).

              Oh, another thought (seeing as you said it's allowed!). Do you have the newer WiFi enabled controller or the older model (which required the gateway)? If the former, I'm wondering whether having the additional radio onboard (despite it being 2.4Ghz) is enough to reduce the sensitivity of the 868Mhz stuff?

              P.

              Comment

              • Cchris
                Automated Home Sr Member
                • Nov 2015
                • 95

                #22
                Yes I have the newer gateways. Though don't know how the issue would be overcome if it is interference from its own 2.4ghz source. That would be a honeywell design issue I think.

                The one way repeating may not be ruled out because my research suggests it is the signal from the HR92's to the controller that is lost/weak. An rf test shows the HR92's get a signal from the controller all the time but the controller shows either poor or occasionally not received from the HR92's.

                I may take a punt on a dumb 868mhz repeater and see what happens..

                I do have three garage doors that operate on 868.3 mhz, but these aren't transmitting constantly. May be worth switching them off as a test though.

                Comment

                • G4RHL
                  Automated Home Legend
                  • Jan 2015
                  • 1580

                  #23
                  Perhaps find the best location in the house where everything may be covered. A wifi or network extender should work to get to your optimum position. The are now some powerful ones and they come with sockets so you can hard wire the Gateway to them. I use one for my TV box and Apple TV. It works very well and gives me a wireless access point as well in a weak location. I think it would mean having to buy the extenders first or having a very long internet cable! Then trial and error to find the optimum position. If your panel is the latest one you will not have a Gateway but the extender will have a wireless output.

                  I have tried a number of extenders. The cheaper ones are not very good. The best I found and now use is a Devolo dLan 1200 + WiFi.

                  Comment

                  • paulockenden
                    Automated Home Legend
                    • Apr 2015
                    • 1719

                    #24
                    A WiFi extender will improve 2.4GHz. Cchris has a problem with 868Mhz.

                    P.

                    Comment

                    • G4RHL
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Jan 2015
                      • 1580

                      #25
                      Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
                      A WiFi extender will improve 2.4GHz. Cchris has a problem with 868Mhz.

                      P.
                      I appreciate that but it seems his problem is signal strength between the Gateway or Panel (if using the latest version) and the valve controls etc. Therefore if the panel or gateway can be closer to the valves or in an optimum position in the house that may be achievable using an extender. I have the older version with a Gateway and where if I needed to an extender would cover the problem. I am not sure though how the new version using the Panel operates. I presume the Panel can be anywhere provided it has an Internet connection?

                      Comment

                      • Cchris
                        Automated Home Sr Member
                        • Nov 2015
                        • 95

                        #26
                        Originally posted by G4RHL View Post
                        I appreciate that but it seems his problem is signal strength between the Gateway or Panel (if using the latest version) and the valve controls etc. Therefore if the panel or gateway can be closer to the valves or in an optimum position in the house that may be achievable using an extender. I have the older version with a Gateway and where if I needed to an extender would cover the problem. I am not sure though how the new version using the Panel operates. I presume the Panel can be anywhere provided it has an Internet connection?

                        No thats not the problem. The control panel gets a perfectly good wifi signal. The problem is between the valves and the control panel. If the panel is moved to the left, it loses the rooms on the right, if I move it to the right, it loses the rooms (and boiler relays) on the left.

                        As requested by top brake, here are the images of the fault log.

                        As can be seen, it is often the case that the link with a sensor or actuator is lost for several hours at a time. There are another couple of pages I think, but they are much the same..







                        Last edited by Cchris; 11 November 2015, 12:31 PM.

                        Comment

                        • G4RHL
                          Automated Home Legend
                          • Jan 2015
                          • 1580

                          #27
                          Thanks. Now understood. You need a booster for a different wave length. Such may exist although I have never researched it. Lightwave for their mains and lighting system produce a booster to extend the range of transmission. It works though in the 400mhz (70cm) band. However, if they can produce that it may be one of those can be doctored or tweaked by someone who knows what he is doing to get it working on 868mhz. More or less a doubling of the frequency so may be possible. There are also repeater modules but these often work on the basis of one frequency in but a different one out. The Lighwave booster may be worth thinking about and am sure you'll find someone who knows how to adjust it.

                          Comment

                          • paulockenden
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Apr 2015
                            • 1719

                            #28
                            Might be worth investigating how difficult it would be to add a wire antenna to an HR92. I suspect it'll be easier than modding the controller.

                            P.

                            Comment

                            • Cchris
                              Automated Home Sr Member
                              • Nov 2015
                              • 95

                              #29
                              Yep - a dumb 868 mhz repeater is worth a go. There appear to be manufactrers of kit (such as lightwave as you point out), that appreciate it may be difficult to get a signal to cover an entire house from one station, so they make a simple booster box to over come it. Others like Texecom on the house alarm side can have their devices daisy chain, so a device that cant communicate directly back to the main panel, can relay its signal through another device which is close to the panel. It seems that the Evohome system is incredibly smart in terms of the level of control and automation on the heating, much more so than hive or nest imho, but the actual technology used to communicate between devices is still a bit behind the times.

                              Comment

                              • Cchris
                                Automated Home Sr Member
                                • Nov 2015
                                • 95

                                #30
                                Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
                                Might be worth investigating how difficult it would be to add a wire antenna to an HR92. I suspect it'll be easier than modding the controller.

                                P.

                                As I suspect the problem is with the HR92 side of the comms, I reckon that will be one of the first things to investigate. Ive got a couple of heads that I havent fitted yet, so I shall take it to bits and have a look I think.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X