optimisation issue

[paulockenden]

only one sensor can be bound to a zone

I believe a multi-room zone can have multiple sensors, although only one is displayed on the controller.

But each HR92 uses the temp from it's own sensor, rather than the whole-zone sensor.

At least, that's how I've always understood it to work.

P.

[DBMandrake]

I believe a multi-room zone can have multiple sensors, although only one is displayed on the controller.

But each HR92 uses the temp from it's own sensor, rather than the whole-zone sensor.

At least, that's how I've always understood it to work.

P.

Each HR92 uses its own built in temperature sensor directly in multi-room mode to control it's own radiator valve, but only one of the sensors is bound to the controller. I don't think it's a case of the controller receiving all but only showing the first temperature on the screen, I think it completely ignores the others - after all they have not even been bound in the binding process, so why would it take any notice of them ? (Only the actuator side of the additional HR92's is bound)

Domoticz on the other hand can detect them as it doesn't rely on being bound to the devices and just listens in on the broadcasts of everything that is willing to talk...

[xylophone]

Thanks for the comments. I think the last point presupposes Domoticz HGI80 connectivity doesn’t it? I’m using the Web API which is downstream of the home controller logic. So I’ll follow the advice to put the sensor stat in the coldest room.

Regards

Tim

[bruce_miranda]

I believe a multi-room zone can have multiple sensors, although only one is displayed on the controller.

But each HR92 uses the temp from it's own sensor, rather than the whole-zone sensor.

At least, that's how I've always understood it to work.

P.

Thats what I thought too, otherwise how is a multi rad single zone different from a multi room single zone?

[bruce_miranda]

Each HR92 uses its own built in temperature sensor directly in multi-room mode to control it's own radiator valve, but only one of the sensors is bound to the controller. I don't think it's a case of the controller receiving all but only showing the first temperature on the screen, I think it completely ignores the others - after all they have not even been bound in the binding process, so why would it take any notice of them ? (Only the actuator side of the additional HR92's is bound)

Domoticz on the other hand can detect them as it doesn't rely on being bound to the devices and just listens in on the broadcasts of everything that is willing to talk...

I actually think that each HR92 is still sending it's temperature back to the control, even in a multi rad scenario. In Domoticz when you use controller filtering it only displays messages that involve a controller. It ignores all the general chatter.

[paulockenden]

I'm sure each room in a multi-room zone must be talking to the controller because they can all call for heat if needed.

P.

[DBMandrake]

Thats what I thought too, otherwise how is a multi rad single zone different from a multi room single zone?

The difference is that in a single room zone the temperature measurement is sent from the nominated sensor to the controller and then relayed to all HR92's in the zone - including the original HR92 that sent the temperature reading in the first place, if applicable.

That means even if there is only one HR92 in the zone the temperature reading is sent from the HR92 to the controller and then relayed back to the HR92 before it is acted on.

In a multi-room zone each HR92 uses its own temperature reading directly rather than expecting the controller to forward temperature readings to it.

I actually think that each HR92 is still sending it's temperature back to the control, even in a multi rad scenario.

How, when only one HR92 is bound as a sensor ? Additional HR92 bindings only bind the actuator "side" of the HR92. All the HR92's might be broadcasting temperature readings but it doesn't mean the controller is listening to them all...

In Domoticz when you use controller filtering it only displays messages that involve a controller. It ignores all the general chatter.

Not in the more recent code - older Domoticz code only monitored zone temperature measurements that were rebroadcast by the controller back to the actuators in the zone, however recent versions have the optional ability to monitor the temperature sensor broadcasts directly - this is what gives the ability to "see" temperature readings from secondary HR92's in a zone. DanD can probably confirm this.

I'm sure each room in a multi-room zone must be talking to the controller because they can all call for heat if needed.

Heat demand is not generated by or sent by the zone "sensor", it is generated and sent by the actuator as the heat demand is (as we recently confirmed) simply an indication of how far the radiator valve pin of the HR92 is open.

Hence in a multi-room zone you only have one HR92 reporting to the controller as sensor (informational only since the HR92's are all using their temperature readings directly) but all HR92's in the zone are reporting heat demands as actuators.

All temperature sensors do is periodically broadcast a temperature reading with a unique device identifier. Binding is the process that assigns those messages to a zone on the controller, otherwise they will just be ignored.

[dty]

I can confirm that a multi-room zone (I have one with 7 rads in), will start each rad independently. This, I suspect, is why you can’t have a wall-stat in such a zone. There are actually 7 different temperatures being used. In effect, a multi-room zone is really n totally separate zones that run independently, but share a schedule and have one of their thermostats nominated for display on the controller.

[DBMandrake]

I can confirm that a multi-room zone (I have one with 7 rads in), will start each rad independently. This, I suspect, is why you can’t have a wall-stat in such a zone. There are actually 7 different temperatures being used. In effect, a multi-room zone is really n totally separate zones that run independently, but share a schedule and have one of their thermostats nominated for display on the controller.

Interesting, looks like I was wrong then. So with optimal start enabled all these different radiators sharing the same single zone schedule definitely come on at significantly staggered intervals ?

If that's so then the controller must actually bind the sensors of all as well even though it says it doesn't. I wonder if this only works with HR92's and not HR80's as on the HR80's you have to explicitly bind the two halves of the device (sensor and actuator) separately yourself, while on the HR92 it does them both for you in one step.

By the way, a multi-room zone consisting of 7 rooms ? What 7 rooms would you want to share the same schedule for ? Just curious.

[dty]

I’m pretty sure, yes, but I can’t confirm now until the summer because many of them trickle heat in during the night to maintain 15.

We have 24 rads, so I had to group things together. Besides, our downstairs is largely either open plan or else we don’t close the doors between rooms, so there’s no point keeping them on different schedules. And they’re multi-room because they all have different thermal performance.

And they are:
Kitchen (2 rads)
Family room
Dining room
Music room
Lobby
Stairs (a small rad on a half-landing)

[bruce_miranda]

Having a common schedule between rooms is actually probably the best and only use of a multi room zone. In our house too we rarely close any doors besides the upstairs bedrooms. But I have broken my single lounge into two zones, only to keep the radiator on near the main couch, on for longer than the rest of the lounge rads.