Completely new heating install, best way to configure for EvoHome?

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  • dty
    Automated Home Ninja
    • Aug 2016
    • 489

    #31
    Originally posted by JohnDoe View Post
    Mine is set-up with all the necessary traditional zoning but not required according to Evo Home SHop.

    Once you add the rest of the radiators, will you need more than 12 zones? If so, will you then get 2 control panels?
    I'm hoping not. Our downstairs has several large rooms, many of which we leave open to each other. There's no point trying to control those separately because the heat (and cold, as I'm learning!) will move between them. So I just have a "downstairs" zone which is a multi-room zone containing 4 (soon to be 6) HR92s. Other downstairs rooms (like the study and the lounge) I do control separately and try and keep the doors closed. And upstairs, I'll do things like bundle the boys' rooms into one zone, the bathrooms into one zone, and the guest rooms into one zone.

    Hopefully, that will do the job! :-)

    Comment

    • paulockenden
      Automated Home Legend
      • Apr 2015
      • 1719

      #32
      I have a large open plan downstairs, but we tend to live mainly at one of it so I have it provisioned as two zones, with a couple of degrees temperature difference between them.

      Over a few hours it does even out, but it does hold the gradient for a while. It also means that the 'used' part of the space heats up faster.

      P.

      Comment

      • DBMandrake
        Automated Home Legend
        • Sep 2014
        • 2361

        #33
        Good point on closed doors vs open doors.

        One important factor with zoning is that you only really get the full benefits out of scheduling nearby rooms to different temperatures if you keep the doors CLOSED as much as possible, especially to rooms that are scheduled right off like spare rooms, otherwise they will suck the heat out of the adjacent room and cause that room's radiator to go full blast trying (and possibly failing) to meet it's target. And it can cause very strong draughts as well due to convection between the rooms.

        At certain times of the day when doors will be open between certain rooms I try not to schedule them more than about 2 degrees different from the adjacent room. For example in a morning week day when people are constantly moving between living room, hallway, bathroom, kitchen etc to get ready I have most of those rooms scheduled to 19 (except the bathroom on 22) so that one rooms radiator is not trying to heat another room and causing draughts.

        Late at night when the living room door is closed most of the time I'll let the hallway drop to 18 while the living room stays at 21, but if I tried to do that earlier in the evening when the door is open and people are passing through a lot you just get a cold draught in the living room.

        So try to keep doors closed as much as possible and think about the times when that is not feasible in your scheduling to avoid large temperature differentials between connected rooms when doors will inevitably be left open.
        Last edited by DBMandrake; 23 January 2017, 03:05 PM.

        Comment

        • bruce_miranda
          Automated Home Legend
          • Jul 2014
          • 2307

          #34
          Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
          I don't know about earlier models but the Wi-Fi model won't even let you create a zone without an actuator in it if you try. And if you try to unbind existing HR92's from an already configured zone, leaving none in the zone you'll get comms errors after a few hours when the controller wonders what happened to the missing HR92(s).
          The Wi-Fi model does allow you to have a zone without an actuator. Currently I have a zone where I am using the temperature sensor of the controller itself, and there is no actuator bound to that zone. I didn't mean for it to be that way, it's just that there are no radiators where the controller is installed on the Landing, but I still wanted to know what the temperature on the Landing was. I keep the Set-point of this zone at 5C all the time.

          Comment

          • HenGus
            Automated Home Legend
            • May 2014
            • 1001

            #35
            Originally posted by bruce_miranda View Post
            The Wi-Fi model does allow you to have a zone without an actuator. Currently I have a zone where I am using the temperature sensor of the controller itself, and there is no actuator bound to that zone. I didn't mean for it to be that way, it's just that there are no radiators where the controller is installed on the Landing, but I still wanted to know what the temperature on the Landing was. I keep the Set-point of this zone at 5C all the time.
            I recall asking this question before I installed Evohome as I was slightly concerned about going down a route that would cost me a lot to return to the status quo ante. The response that I got was that Evohome set up for one zone (that is: the whole house) would work no differently from a single zone smart thermostat. I confess that I never actually ran a test to prove if this statement was true.

            Comment

            • DBMandrake
              Automated Home Legend
              • Sep 2014
              • 2361

              #36
              Originally posted by bruce_miranda View Post
              The Wi-Fi model does allow you to have a zone without an actuator. Currently I have a zone where I am using the temperature sensor of the controller itself, and there is no actuator bound to that zone. I didn't mean for it to be that way, it's just that there are no radiators where the controller is installed on the Landing, but I still wanted to know what the temperature on the Landing was. I keep the Set-point of this zone at 5C all the time.
              Can it call for heat from the boiler if you turn that "zone" up and all the others down though ? I suspect not, in which case it is not very useful...

              Comment

              • bruce_miranda
                Automated Home Legend
                • Jul 2014
                • 2307

                #37
                Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
                I have a large open plan downstairs, but we tend to live mainly at one of it so I have it provisioned as two zones, with a couple of degrees temperature difference between them.

                Over a few hours it does even out, but it does hold the gradient for a while. It also means that the 'used' part of the space heats up faster.

                P.
                I have something similar in our Lounge where the radiator next to the couch on the side my wife sits is a different zone. It allows that radiator to be run slightly warmer and for slightly longer than the rest of the Lounge.

                Comment

                • Mavis
                  Automated Home Ninja
                  • Oct 2014
                  • 322

                  #38
                  Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                  Good point on closed doors vs open doors.

                  One important factor with zoning is that you only really get the full benefits out of scheduling nearby rooms to different temperatures if you keep the doors CLOSED as much as possible, especially to rooms that are scheduled right off like spare rooms, otherwise they will suck the heat out of the adjacent room and cause that room's radiator to go full blast trying (and possibly failing) to meet it's target. And it can cause very strong draughts as well due to convection between the rooms.

                  At certain times of the day when doors will be open between certain rooms I try not to schedule them more than about 2 degrees different from the adjacent room. For example in a morning week day when people are constantly moving between living room, hallway, bathroom, kitchen etc to get ready I have most of those rooms scheduled to 19 (except the bathroom on 22) so that one rooms radiator is not trying to heat another room and causing draughts.

                  Late at night when the living room door is closed most of the time I'll let the hallway drop to 18 while the living room stays at 21, but if I tried to do that earlier in the evening when the door is open and people are passing through a lot you just get a cold draught in the living room.

                  So try to keep doors closed as much as possible and think about the times when that is not feasible in your scheduling to avoid large temperature differentials between connected rooms when doors will inevitably be left open.
                  Standard refrain in our house by me ... 'DOOR'

                  Comment

                  • JohnDoe
                    Automated Home Jr Member
                    • Jan 2017
                    • 18

                    #39
                    May be a silly question, but why would one use a Wireless Digital Room Thermostat instead of a HR92 on a radiator in a room?

                    Comment

                    • bruce_miranda
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Jul 2014
                      • 2307

                      #40
                      Originally posted by JohnDoe View Post
                      May be a silly question, but why would one use a Wireless Digital Room Thermostat instead of a HR92 on a radiator in a room?
                      many reasons actually. But it's all to do with placing the temperature sensor in the place where you want to feel the most comfortable. And 9 out of 10 times, that isn't near the radiator.

                      Comment

                      • JohnDoe
                        Automated Home Jr Member
                        • Jan 2017
                        • 18

                        #41
                        Originally posted by bruce_miranda View Post
                        many reasons actually. But it's all to do with placing the temperature sensor in the place where you want to feel the most comfortable. And 9 out of 10 times, that isn't near the radiator.
                        So one could install Wireless Digital Room Thermostats instead of HR92s in rooms where one spends more time sitting, for example?

                        Comment

                        • dty
                          Automated Home Ninja
                          • Aug 2016
                          • 489

                          #42
                          No. You still need HR92s to control the radiators. It's just that's the controller will use the temperature from the thermostat to control the room instead of the temperature from the HR92s.

                          Comment

                          • DBMandrake
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Sep 2014
                            • 2361

                            #43
                            Measuring the room temperature away from the radiator is always more accurate and preferred, (so long as the location for the thermostat is sensibly chosen) and sometimes it can be necessary - for example if there are drapes hanging over the HR92 or there is furniture right in front of the HR92 or the radiator it won't get a good measurement of room temperature as there will be poor convection around the room, which can lead to the room being several degrees colder than the temperature the HR92 claims.

                            Every room situation is different so a little bit of experimentation is sometimes needed to see whether a wall thermostat is warranted or not in a given room, and it also depends on how fussy you are about the temperature being spot on - some people are more fussy than others, and it can depend on the usage of the room whether it needs to be accurate or not. For example I like our living room temperature to be "spot on" as we spend a lot of time there in the evening, whereas the exact temperature of the hall, kitchen and bathroom I'm not so fussed about, as long as they're in the ballpark.
                            Last edited by DBMandrake; 25 January 2017, 11:04 AM.

                            Comment

                            • HenGus
                              Automated Home Legend
                              • May 2014
                              • 1001

                              #44
                              It does make one wonder why HW has never offered an actuator only (cheaper?) HR92 variant?

                              Comment

                              • DBMandrake
                                Automated Home Legend
                                • Sep 2014
                                • 2361

                                #45
                                Originally posted by HenGus View Post
                                It does make one wonder why HW has never offered an actuator only (cheaper?) HR92 variant?
                                Or a cheaper wall sensor.

                                I still maintain there is a demand for a remote wall mounted sensor that does the same job as an HCF82 but in the £20-£30 price range instead of for £58... (it's more expensive than a DTS92 with display and buttons ? Why ?)

                                The HCF82 and DTS92 do not have good WAF ratings at all - my other half has complained about the "ugly" DTS92 in our living room but I finally talked her into it. I'm not particularly keen on the T87RF either, at its price.

                                Something that was very small, (not much bigger than the batteries) sleek and completely anonymous looking (no branding, no visible buttons or display, no "styling" etc) that could be unobtrusively placed on a wall to blend in would be ideal to provide that extra sensing accuracy of a remote sensor without the high cost and debatable aesthetics of the current range of sensors.

                                If there was something like this available a few more of my rooms would have remote sensors!

                                BTW I'm not sure that removing the temperature sensing feature from an HR92 replacement would save any significant cost, and it would make it unusable on its own.
                                Last edited by DBMandrake; 25 January 2017, 12:12 PM.

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