Evohome sounds my perfect solution?

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  • jmac80
    Automated Home Lurker
    • Dec 2016
    • 5

    Evohome sounds my perfect solution?

    Hello all and merry Christmas

    First post here and after a bit of advice on Honeywell Evohome setup.
    I was initially looking at the hive and nest, I even ordered a nest but shall most likely be returning it as after looking over the honeywell evohome it just seems the best system for my needs..

    Current system:
    Combi boiler, 1 zone in entire house (ground floor living areas and first floor 3 bedrooms and bathroom)
    Danfoss 7 day CH clock next to boiler and the worlds ugliest danfoss basic roomstat in my Hall, That's it just program on / off times or leave running and set by hall stat and danfoss rad trv's.

    There is one room that I need to be warm pretty much all the time through the night and parts of the day and that's my daughters bedroom, She is disabled and her bedroom is also a sensory room, she sleeps on a thin mattress on the floor as a raised bed is too dangerous for her.

    We will also be converting the garage into a downstairs bedroom/wetroom for her in the future as she's getting much to big to carry up/down stairs etc now, especially for my wife, so that will need control also.

    I was thinking about getting plumbers and sparks in to zone the system, ground floor 1 zone, first floor 2 zone and a third for future garage/bedroom then add nests to each zone... but this from what I can make out would cost me a fair bit more than a honeywell evohome setup and at the end of it I would still be left with less control than a evohome.

    Do you still have to have a radiator (currently in my hall where roomstat is) running freely with no trv?

    My upstairs bathroom actually has 2 rads in it, normal one with trv and a towel radiator running freely like the downstairs hall one, would this be an issue to fit a evohome trv in there?

    My kitchen has 2 rads and my living rm has 2 rads, can I link the 2 living rm evohome rad trv to a single honeywell stat on the wall in that room and control/sense temp from there and that changes both rads? Basically multiple rads in one controlled zone.

    One last note... everything about evohome seems perfect but I just read the 13 page evohome is noisy thread and now I'm a little concerned about noise as daughters head would be about 1/2 foot fro the trv and she sleeps basically on the floor

    Thanks for taking the time to read.

    James
  • DBMandrake
    Automated Home Legend
    • Sep 2014
    • 2361

    #2
    Originally posted by jmac80 View Post
    There is one room that I need to be warm pretty much all the time through the night and parts of the day and that's my daughters bedroom, She is disabled and her bedroom is also a sensory room, she sleeps on a thin mattress on the floor as a raised bed is too dangerous for her.
    Having a single zone running through the night is no problem with Evohome - we have an 8 month old who shares the bedroom with us and it is not well insulated, so without some sort of heat during the night it would get far too cold for him in the winter even with the window shut.

    So we have the bedroom scheduled to 18 degrees from 8pm to 11pm to have the room (and bed fabric) warmed up for bed time then 16 degrees right through the night until the following morning. All other rooms in the house are scheduled to 5 degrees through the night so there are no other rooms wasting gas being kept warm. Also if the room doesn't drop as low as 16 during the night (during the warmer months) the boiler/radiator will not even come on at all in the night - it's all automatic based on the temperature sensed in the room, I don't need to change the bedroom schedule with the seasons.
    I was thinking about getting plumbers and sparks in to zone the system, ground floor 1 zone, first floor 2 zone and a third for future garage/bedroom then add nests to each zone... but this from what I can make out would cost me a fair bit more than a honeywell evohome setup and at the end of it I would still be left with less control than a evohome.
    I'm not sure about the cost of your alternative, but an HR92 is about £60 and if you have one on every radiator then every room can be a separate zone without any zone valves. Every HR92 has the ability to call for heat from the boiler (relayed via the controller) so there is no one overall thermostat on an Evohome system, and every room with HR92's is zoned. There can be a maximum of 12 zones, but you can have more than 12 radiators if some of your zones have multiple radiators. Generally a zone is a single room but it is possible to have multiple rooms that form a single zone for scheduling purposes.
    Do you still have to have a radiator (currently in my hall where roomstat is) running freely with no trv?
    This depends on your plumbing - as long as you have an automatic bypass valve installed in the system then no, you do not need a bypass radiator. On our old system the thermostat was in the hallway and the hallway radiator was a bypass radiator with no TRV.

    Because I have an automatic bypass valve I installed a TRV on the hallway radiator (I had to add a TRV valve body first - as both ends were lockshield valves previously) and there are no bypass radiators in the house. So I can schedule any room on individually without other radiators coming on. This is good for having the bedroom scheduled on at night otherwise the hallway radiator would be wasting a lot of heat in an unused room.
    My upstairs bathroom actually has 2 rads in it, normal one with trv and a towel radiator running freely like the downstairs hall one, would this be an issue to fit a evohome trv in there?
    The main issue you might have there if only the radiator and not the towel rail had an HR92 on it, is that in warmer weather it may not be able to keep the room temperature down to the set point since the towel radiator would be putting some heat into the room any time the boiler was running - but that's the case now of course. The other thing is that the towel rail is effectively a bypass radiator, so when you schedule your bedroom radiator on at night some energy will be wasted in heating your towels..
    My kitchen has 2 rads and my living rm has 2 rads, can I link the 2 living rm evohome rad trv to a single honeywell stat on the wall in that room and control/sense temp from there and that changes both rads? Basically multiple rads in one controlled zone.
    Yes that's no problem - the system supports multiple radiators per zone that are controlled in step with each other. Although you can use a wall stat to control this pair of radiators you don't have to - you can nominate one of the HR92's as the sensor for the zone and the other one will just act like a "slave", adjusting its radiator but using the sensed temperature from the other HR92.
    One last note... everything about evohome seems perfect but I just read the 13 page evohome is noisy thread and now I'm a little concerned about noise as daughters head would be about 1/2 foot fro the trv and she sleeps basically on the floor
    If the TRV is only 1/2 foot from her head then yes the noise would almost certainly wake her up, so this would be a major sticking point. So you would probably want to investigate some other method of control for that particular room other than an HR92 right on the end of the radiator.

    Where do the pipes for that radiator run ? Is it possible to tap into one of the feed pipes to that radiator in the loft space before it connects to the main trunk lines perhaps ? If you can in theory you could install the HR92 in the loft space pipe that feeds that particular radiator and use a wall stat in the room to sense the temperature instead of the HR92's built in sensor. The only time you'd need to get at the HR92 once installed would be every year or two to change the batteries.

    Another option would be the thermally activated valve mentioned in the noise thread, but that would require a BDR91 relay to control it which would itself need to be mounted outside the room, as it clicks.
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 25 December 2016, 04:01 PM.

    Comment

    • jmac80
      Automated Home Lurker
      • Dec 2016
      • 5

      #3
      Hello
      Thank you very much for the in depth reply!
      The idea I really liked about evohome was the plug and play aspect, And with the noise issue I would have under my circumstances with my daighter and having to make extra changes here and there I may be just better going back to my original idea of ground floor zone, first floor zone and garage conversion zone with nest stats or similar.. I did like the idea of every room been a zone but I guess 3 zones isn't bad overall as I can still shut down unused zones / rooms in that areas with the manual TRV I have.. (for example an unused bedroom)

      Thanks James

      Comment

      • G4RHL
        Automated Home Legend
        • Jan 2015
        • 1580

        #4
        I am biased but I'd say Evohome is ideal for your set up. Being able to control one room on it's own is a perfect situation which Evohome handles with no difficulty and you can monitor the temperature from elsewhere if you need to.

        Comment

        • jmac80
          Automated Home Lurker
          • Dec 2016
          • 5

          #5
          Your right G4RHL it is and i would absolutely love to buy it.. right now!.. Everything except the noise from the TRV's I'm afraid.
          It's hard enough trying to get my daughter to sleep and stay asleep as it is and with any distractions it keeps her awake for hours on end
          I've gone to bed at 1am, walked past her door and the floorboard creaked, then that's her awake until about 4am.
          A crappy situation but that's life

          Comment

          • G4RHL
            Automated Home Legend
            • Jan 2015
            • 1580

            #6
            Not easy for you. An electric radiator with a decent thermostat? Not sure about the running costs though.

            Comment

            • jmac80
              Automated Home Lurker
              • Dec 2016
              • 5

              #7
              Nah no way I'd go electric.
              We just had the gas combi boiler installed recently, It replaced a multi fuel log/coal back boiler stove.
              It's so nice to wake up to a warm house and not have to do the fire in the morning to heat the place
              My only gripe is the 1 stat downstairs in the Hall.. Just really seems like a huge waste of money heating bedrooms etc through the day, I know I could turn the trv in the bedrooms off manually but i'd soon get bored of that.. I think 3 zones is the way to go.

              Thanks James

              Comment

              • G4RHL
                Automated Home Legend
                • Jan 2015
                • 1580

                #8
                One stat in the hall was the norm for decades but never seemed to make sense. zoning works with Evohome and easily controlled. I cannot answer your noise issue though. For most us of the HR92s are quiet but I fully accept there will some where the sensitivity to noise is an ultra problem. Damping and insulating for sound does not then work. There is a posting elsewhere in this forum where a user is running all sorts of checks to reduce noise. I wonder if Honeywell's boffins back in the design unit can come up with any ideas.

                Comment

                • MrB
                  Automated Home Sr Member
                  • Oct 2015
                  • 80

                  #9
                  Bit left field this, but needs must... {and I add I have not ever tried this - just off the top of my head}

                  If you put a 'normal' mechanical TRV on the daughters radiator that would keep it quite, but of course you need to tell the Evohome Controller to push some hot water around to that rad.
                  So what about a Evo Room Stat in the daughter's room? So it would request heat from the boiler (via Evo Controller) and then the mechanical TRV would be the final decision maker on the temp.

                  The only downside is that the 2 would have to very closely in sync with temperature regulation otherwise the thermostat would be calling for heat and the rad TRV would be off. Which would mean the bypass pipe would be warming up. Careful setting of the 2 may overcome this.

                  The other permutation (TRV open and thermo off) is much easier to correct.

                  Comment

                  • DBMandrake
                    Automated Home Legend
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 2361

                    #10
                    I don't see how this would work, as you can't add a wall stat without an actuator.

                    Comment

                    • G4RHL
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Jan 2015
                      • 1580

                      #11
                      Or, and not sure if this would work but ensure good synchronisation with respect to temperature betweeen an HR92 and a "normal" TRV on the radiator. Then leave the HR92 somewhere in the room but not of course screwed on the radiator. The chances are, because it is not driving the pin in the valve, the sound would be little, such that your daughter does not hear it. I have never tried operating an HR92 not attached to a radiator, but a thought.

                      Comment

                      • jmac80
                        Automated Home Lurker
                        • Dec 2016
                        • 5

                        #12
                        That would basically work like an open radiator then and get heat whenever another zone called for it.

                        could work with some tweaking I guess.

                        Comment

                        • DBMandrake
                          Automated Home Legend
                          • Sep 2014
                          • 2361

                          #13
                          There are three different ways that you can get completely silent control of the radiator in the room that have been discussed before in other threads, in order of preference:

                          1) Use a Honeywell "thermoelectric actuator" on the side of the radiator in place of an HR92:



                          There is a small electric element inside that expands when heated to push down on the pin - much like a conventional wax pellet TRV expands with heat. I haven't tried one but it should be completely silent.

                          To operate it you would need a BDR91 wired to it - the BDR91 itself is not silent and makes a small "click" each time it turns on and off (every 10 minutes or so) so this would need to be mounted out of earshot with a cable run to the actuator - inside a wardrobe or closet is probably sufficient to muffle the sound otherwise in the hall, adjacent room, loft etc...

                          2) If the piping allows it - mount the HR92 remotely in the loft/crawl space on a branch that only feeds the radiators in that one room.

                          3) If the piping allows it, fit a standard 2 port zone valve in series with the branch that only feeds the radiators in that one room. Zone valves are silent to open but do make a small amount of noise when they close so like the HR92 would need to be mounted out of the room. The zone valve will not give as precise temperature control as the HR92.

                          All three approaches require a remote wall stat such as a DTS92 to sense the temperature in the room.

                          Note: I haven't tried or tested any of these approaches first hand.

                          Comment

                          • sandyman
                            Automated Home Sr Member
                            • Mar 2016
                            • 85

                            #14
                            Originally posted by jmac80 View Post
                            Nah no way I'd go electric.
                            We just had the gas combi boiler installed recently, It replaced a multi fuel log/coal back boiler stove.
                            It's so nice to wake up to a warm house and not have to do the fire in the morning to heat the place
                            My only gripe is the 1 stat downstairs in the Hall.. Just really seems like a huge waste of money heating bedrooms etc through the day, I know I could turn the trv in the bedrooms off manually but i'd soon get bored of that.. I think 3 zones is the way to go.

                            Thanks James
                            when my son was in a cot, I used a panel electric rad on the wall in his room overnight with a built in timer, to keep his room at 16. the main heating for the house was still gas - even for his room. the electric usage was tiny. this was just to cater for the issue of heating noise overnight waking him (or more likely us!) up. now he is bigger, the panel electric is in the back of the garage unused, and he sleeps with a big duvet and no heating needed overnight.

                            my point is, I think you can fix the problem of noise in your daughters room overnight tactically using an electric panel rad, and I don't think the need to solve this issue should divert you from the benefits of going evo. with the standard electric panel type you will just get small click from the thermostat but there might be more sophisticated silent version if you dig around . So, still go full evohome everywhere (including her room) you set the overnight evo setpoint in her room lower than that of the electric rad. during the day you reverse that situation so the bulk of heat for her room is still gas driven.

                            when she gets bigger and sleeps like a log and/or can be happier with a big duvet so no need for overnight heating, you can ditch the tactical electric. my solution to overnight silence from evo is simply to have the setpoint low enough that it will only come on if the frost gets inside! Big duvets are the answer!
                            the plumbing changes for silence proposed are also valid but potentially a lot more work, hence the reason for my suggesting the quick/tactical fix with an electric as you may find you don't need it for ever.

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