New to CBus - some ideas/hints please

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Originally Posted by chris_j_hunter

'curious to know how much advance planning you find is necessary, in terms of Node content & layout ... and if you think a mechanical label printer (eg: Rhino 3000) would be help or hinderance ?

we're about one-third wired-up now (power & light, Cat-5e FTP & UTP, Cat-6 UTP, CT100 digital, etc), so we're beginning to think about how in-detail to arrange the nodes - it would be nice if the result was presentable !

one suggestion we've had is to use some of the UniStrut system components for mounting enclosures & help with managing cables ... ??

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Hi Chris

There's a reasonable amount of time spent planning the head-end, obviously more if there's more going into it. To make sure everything fits in and how to arrange it all. You don't want to run out of space when 80% through as re-arranging everything wouldn't be a pleasant experience. Certainly a label printer is useful but I wouldn't worry about printing labels until everything is wired and tested.

I'd expect most better installers have their preferred way of fitting out so as to leave the panel and other aspects of the head-end presentable and manageable. You learn from experience what works, looks good and leaves access for future modification. A common mistake is not leaving enough room for everything and having little room to fit the kit you need in and having no room for expansion.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1347818...57624224140934

The LV head-end shown here took up the entire tall cabinet and some of the one beside it, and the kitchen company owner found it hard to believe me when I told him how much space we'd need. Just the other day I looked at this space again to see how to free up some space, as the client is adding a HDMI matrix in and we're already more than full up in the cabinet visible.

Stephen

that's an interesting example - our (1980s) hi-fi cupboard is a bit like that - not on the same scale, of course, but shelves & space at the back for cables to drop ... when occasionally it's necessary to do something in there, components have to be pulled-forward & heads ventured into the deep, to plug & unplug ... heat's also an issue, we find, because we didn't really allow enough air-space between components & shelves, and the through-flow is limited by air intake & exhaust issues - all things we're hoping to get right this time round ...

we did draw-up a list of what's to go in the nodes (one alcove per floor, so space not generous) but even before we've started to fit them things are being added, so we can see problems dawning - even though we're not working at anything like the scale of your examples !

most HA modules, in our case, will be distributed about the house, with just a few DIN-rail mounted, but the needs of things like patch-panels & for small UPSs & transformers seem to be growing, little by little ...

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Originally Posted by i-Home

The DIN rail connectors I use are screw down ones but I'd be keen to try using the spring terminal type sometime. I had been using Legrand ones as they had lots of accessories but recently changed over to Telemecanique as they use really long bridging bars making it neat to connect all the earths together (and neutrals where rcbo's aren't being used).

The RCBO's certainly are more expensive then MCB's, but they've came down in price a lot of the last year. MCB's can cost as little as £1 each with descent makes costing about £3, with RCBO's costing £15-£25 each, but one make recently that we tried was less than £10 each, and seem to work ok so far anyway.

1977! I was only 2 then :) You ever come back much?
99.9% of all T&E is grey now. It is very hard to find white T&E but it can be got but not as a stock item. We've a big house (15K sq.ft.) to completely wire this summer for power and cbus amongst everything else, and I plan to use white & grey T&E to differentiate mains systems.

And yes our colours were "harmonised" with European colours a few years back, so red/blue/yellow/black are now brown/grey/black/blue.

Stephen

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Hi Stephen

The spring terminals are my favourite , haved used them a lot doing industrial work...Also what i like about them is the bridging links ,they are not strips so you can add more easily...

Just watch those cheap rcbo,s...Recently a brand in Oz was taken off the shelves of the wholesalers no reason given...but i have heard it failed at 1ka ,was rated for 6ka.....

No havnt been back at all.....Wife has been back a few times and is going for a few weeks later this year...Sister is heading over next month for a wedding....

I see some old switchboards here with Phase colours red ,yellow ,blue...... but they changed at some stage to red,white ,blue ..for phases...Wish they would "Harmonise" to European colours here....

What sort of cable do you use for 3 phase ??...Here we use "Orange Circular"
You can also use a t+e along with a twin active.....

Are you allowed to use t+e cable for switching...???......Reason i ask is ..I purchased
Chris Kitcher,s "Practical Guide to Inspecting,Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations" and there,s a pic on page 66 which shows a light switch with t+e connected to it ..so they are using the neutral wire as a switch wire...?? Here you would have to tape or heat shrink the neutral an active colour.....
Thanks
Frank

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Originally Posted by FrankMcAlinden

The spring terminals are my favourite , haved used them a lot doing industrial work...Also what i like about them is the bridging links ,they are not strips so you can add more easily...

Just watch those cheap rcbo,s...Recently a brand in Oz was taken off the shelves of the wholesalers no reason given...but i have heard it failed at 1ka ,was rated for 6ka.....
...
What sort of cable do you use for 3 phase ??...Here we use "Orange Circular"
You can also use a t+e along with a twin active.....

Are you allowed to use t+e cable for switching...???......Reason i ask is ..I purchased
Chris Kitcher,s "Practical Guide to Inspecting,Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations" and there,s a pic on page 66 which shows a light switch with t+e connected to it ..so they are using the neutral wire as a switch wire...?? Here you would have to tape or heat shrink the neutral an active colour.....

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What make of terminals are u using? Interested to see what the "bridging links" look like as I'm still thinking of strips.

Ref the RCBO's -- yes, I'm wary of cheap ones but it can be hard to pass them if you haven't priced the more expensive ones and the cheaper ones being half the cost. And we'll often have protection feeding the RCBO's.

Ref 3Ph cable - just whatever suits the application, i.e. singles, 3c&E or 4 core cable, of the correct csa & sheath and preferably the correct colours inside, although you can still sleeve the cores at either end where they are connected. Similar to what you said regarding using T&E instead of twin live/brown.

There was one cbus install we did a few yrs back where the spark ordered and fitted loads of 1.5mm T&E, but in fact he was delivered 1.5mm twin live by mistake and never noticed until they had run in many 100's of metres. So rather than replace it all they sleeved/taped one leg of the twin live to use as neutral.

Stephen

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Originally Posted by i-Home

What make of terminals are u using? Interested to see what the "bridging links" look like as I'm still thinking of strips.

Ref the RCBO's -- yes, I'm wary of cheap ones but it can be hard to pass them if you haven't priced the more expensive ones and the cheaper ones being half the cost. And we'll often have protection feeding the RCBO's.

Ref 3Ph cable - just whatever suits the application, i.e. singles, 3c&E or 4 core cable, of the correct csa & sheath and preferably the correct colours inside, although you can still sleeve the cores at either end where they are connected. Similar to what you said regarding using T&E instead of twin live/brown.

There was one cbus install we did a few yrs back where the spark ordered and fitted loads of 1.5mm T&E, but in fact he was delivered 1.5mm twin live by mistake and never noticed until they had run in many 100's of metres. So rather than replace it all they sleeved/taped one leg of the twin live to use as neutral.

Stephen

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Hi Stephen

The terminals im referring to are Wago...check out the link....This link shows the bridging links...

http://www.wago.com/cps/rde/xchg/SID...l/gle-2057.htm

These could be useful
http://www.wago.com/cps/rde/xchg/SID...l/gle-2631.htm

Frank

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Originally Posted by FrankMcAlinden

The terminals im referring to are Wago...check out the link....This link shows the bridging links...

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Ah yes, Wago. The maker of funky connectors :), or as they say "The World of Spring Clamp Termination Systems".
I have a few samples of their connectors but never used their din rail connectors yet. Just found their 2008 catalogue in the office here..... there's a lot of stuff in it!

It looks like their series 280-101 connectors are the closest to what I normally use, with side-entry openings, yet still using the "adjacent jumpers" that you linked to.

Stephen