Newbie home networking questions

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  • yakboy
    Automated Home Lurker
    • Oct 2006
    • 5

    Newbie home networking questions

    I'm building a house extension next year and have been advised to lay in as much cat 5 cable as possible. I want to network my PC's , and run a sonos system..I have seen the cat8 systems where I can also distribute my TV signal & have got the impression you guys are not too impressed by it. Can cat 5 distribute UHF signals?

    Any suggestions on what I should be looking into doing would be most gratefully recieved
  • toscal
    Moderator
    • Oct 2005
    • 2061

    #2
    Re: Newbie home networking questions

    Don't want to jump on Kieth's toes, but have a look at the Abitana system. www.abitana.com and the UK distribution is by www.minitran.co.uk.
    The Abitana systems basically uses a modified CAT5 cable with the cable pair 7&8 made of slightly thicker wire that has extra shielding, so it can carry UHF signals upto 900Mhz.
    I have the system in my house and its excellent. Plus you can still use the KAT5 system in conjuntion with it if you want to. Also my wife thinks its good as well.
    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
    Renovation Spain Blog

    Comment

    • katman
      Moderator
      • Jan 2004
      • 247

      #3
      Re: Newbie home networking questions

      The only real references I have seen to CAT8 are for the stuff from SinglePointNetworks where they have non standards and (IMHO) extremely ugly connectors. They advocate using different pairs in a single cable for different sevices which is totally against the structured cabling ethos

      The whole point of a CAT5/6 structured cabling scheme is that you have a standard infrastructure which will deliver 4 pairs to any convienient point in the building. CAT5/6 is cheap and extremely versatile. It is reliable and easy for people to plug and play.

      Whilst is is possible to "push the boundaries" and send UHF over twisted pair there tends to be much higher attenuation at the upper end of the band and depending on which frequencies you are distributing you may require equalisation to ensure that all channels are received at a suitable strength.

      UHF distribution is fine for incoming broadcast signals but be aware that the RF output from Set Top Boxes is only transmitted with MONO audio.

      Many people are using KAT5 (and other similar systems) to not only distribute SKY etc but also to feed the output of AV equipment to LCD/Plasma screens and projectors which dont have UHF tuners in them.

      Hope that helps
      KAT5.tv - affordable high quality AV Distribution
      http://www.kat5.tv

      Comment

      • yakboy
        Automated Home Lurker
        • Oct 2006
        • 5

        #4
        Re: Newbie home networking questions

        Thanks for the replies. I am after a system that will distrubute broadband and a uhf TV signal along the same wire so the singlepoint network system seems like overkill. I'll look into the abitana system...Cheers

        Comment

        • martyK
          Automated Home Lurker
          • Oct 2006
          • 3

          #5
          Re: Newbie home networking questions

          hey,
          I am very interested in what was said here.
          excuse me for the disorganised ramble below but..

          I am starting for a slightly different point in that I am moving into a completed house (buingalow) which has already been built.

          Do installers work with completed houses ??

          What I really want is a home network with a network connection as well as connections for telephones and sky TV in practically everyroom.

          As I am moving into a bungalow I was thinking perhaps I could run the CAT5 outside the bungalow in the ground with cables running up the walls where I want a connection inside.

          The cat5 would be in some kind of metal ducting to protect it from the elements.
          Is that a realistic idea? Has anyone done something similar ?

          Apart from ripping the walls apart to lay CAT5 , what other options are there?

          As an alternative to CAT 5 I could use a wireless network ,
          I would then need a separate set of handsfree phones connected to a single base unit ( I believe theres a bang and olapson which has 4 phones from the one base) , but that leaves me running coax cable for the sky TV system - yuk.

          Can you get the sky signal into and out of a wireless network without using a PC?

          (I have succeeded with a PC and an attached capture card into the Svideo on the sky box but the picture wasnt great and the PC needed to be switched on all the time)


          thanks in advance for your help/recomendations here people
          MartyK

          Comment

          • gkinghrn
            Automated Home Lurker
            • Dec 2006
            • 3

            #6
            Re: Newbie home networking questions

            Not sure about some of that as I am newbie her emyself but I run Cat-5 cables round the outside of my house (at the back as it doesn't show) for my 100mbit Lan and get no probems whatsover..not sure about the higher frequency stuff for TV etc...

            Comment

            • martyK
              Automated Home Lurker
              • Oct 2006
              • 3

              #7
              Re: Newbie home networking questions

              hey gkinghrn
              so what do you run through cat 5 as well as PC stuff . TV telephones??

              ta
              Martyk

              Comment

              • yakboy
                Automated Home Lurker
                • Oct 2006
                • 5

                #8
                Re: Newbie home networking questions

                The modified Cat 5 cable of the abitana system can run PC, phone, TV & video signals...I'm going ahead with this next year in my new extension as it seems very flexible

                Comment

                • martyK
                  Automated Home Lurker
                  • Oct 2006
                  • 3

                  #9
                  Re: Newbie home networking questions

                  but how expensive is it....???

                  Comment

                  • toscal
                    Moderator
                    • Oct 2005
                    • 2061

                    #10
                    Re: Newbie home networking questions

                    Thats a bit like saying how expensive is a car. It depends on the number of sockets per room. What distribution modules you want etc etc.
                    For an idea on price visit www.minitran.co.uk and also www.abitana.com and go to there webshop.
                    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                    Renovation Spain Blog

                    Comment

                    • nickgale
                      Automated Home Jr Member
                      • Jun 2005
                      • 38

                      #11
                      Re: Newbie home networking questions

                      To me the Abitana, Lexcom, Single point systems just don't stack up, you can easily run 4 cat5 and a Coax to each point for the same price. What if you want Sky HD in the future - you'll probably need to put the sky box local to the TV and the ONLY choice here is good quality WF100 coax.

                      I do this for a living and my standard install is 4 x Cat5 and a minimum of 1 Coax to each point where a TV is likely to be used. Coax can be used for a basic cheap UHF distro or to get Sat box in a room, one Cat 5 can send Composite + Audio + IR, one can be used for Data or phone (Sat box or MCE PC) and the remaining two could be used for HDMI (boxes now exist for sending HDCP compatable HDMI signals over Cat5) To me this is about as future proof as you can get. Abitana, Lexcom, etc. won't do this.

                      As for the Hub end - good old 19" rack is the best if you can hide it, or look at Home Network Science for a wall mounted box or Leviton if you can recess it.

                      Happy to give you a quote or more advice

                      HTH Nick

                      Comment

                      • toscal
                        Moderator
                        • Oct 2005
                        • 2061

                        #12
                        Re: Newbie home networking questions

                        Not too sure where you get your info on the Abitana and Lexcom systems from.
                        To give you an idea of what the Abitana system can do, here is a basic rundown of what my home system consists of.
                        I distribute to 3 TVs a digital cable box, a freeview box and the analogue cable system we have here in Spain. The digiboxes are at my node 0, I have full ir control via the Abitana system. The telephone is also distributed to various points throughout the house via the Abitana system. My router is also conneced to the system. I also have audio distribution via the system. So any RJ45socket in the house can be either a TV, Telephone, Ethernet or Audio point. I also distribute RS232 via the system as well. All distribution boxes are in the Abitana patch panel.
                        "(boxes now exist for sending HDCP compatable HDMI signals over Cat5) To me this is about as future proof as you can get. Abitana, Lexcom, etc. won't do this." Wrong. This will work with the Abitana system and also the Lexcom system. Infact anything designed for a Cat5 system will work.
                        Also now Abitana do a High Definition Component Video + S/PDIF Audio adapter, for point to point distribution of HD.
                        I know that the Lexcom system can do most if not all of the above, though I'm not 100% sure about the HD (unless its a Cat5 based HD system which it can handle just like Abitana).
                        IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                        Renovation Spain Blog

                        Comment

                        • nickgale
                          Automated Home Jr Member
                          • Jun 2005
                          • 38

                          #13
                          Re: Newbie home networking questions

                          The main point I'm getting at is that the only thing the Abitana system does over a Cat5 based system is allow you to send UHF signals on the same cable , but the cost of the special cable is so much greater than Cat5 you could run a coax + 4 x cat5 to each position for less money.

                          In the UK the Abitana Cable costs £237.04 for 300m and you can only use it for one purpose at a time, i.e. TV or PC or phone or Video, etc.

                          4 x 305m boxes of Cat5 plus a drum of Coax will set you back around £220.00 and by running 4 x cat5 and a coax to each position you can use it for 4 or 5 purposes at the same time. So if you have a TV, Media Centre PC and Sat box in the same position you can run all of them for the same cable cost as one item with Abitana.

                          Runing a Coax to each position also allows for a local satellite box in a room, something that you can't do with the Abitana system.

                          Using the Leviton plates you can get 4 sockets on a single gang UK plate.

                          And there are many different options available for Cat5 including High Def Component + SDIF, HDMI, S-Video, Composite + Stereo, IR and RS232. Yes these will also run over the Abitana cable and the Lexcom cable, it will just cost you 5 times as much for the cable!

                          The modules are also expensive - 4 port ethernet router for £126.59 + adsl modem, when you can buy a Netgear ADSL 4 port router for around £50.00

                          If you're sending three central sources over the Abitana system I presume you're using the 4 channel Modulator and viewing these as an analogue channel on the TV? If so I'll bet the sound is in mono?

                          Most importantly we've just installed a system with two Toshiba LCD TV's - neither of which appears to have an analogue tuner, so how would that work in your system? Analogue TV switch off starts here in the UK in a couple of years it won't be long before we see only digital tuners on TV's, at which point the whole Abitana and Lexcom TV distribution model falls apart. (Yes they have a Composite Video+Stereo Audio module but that is only single input)

                          My advice is simple - stick to tried and tested structured cable systems like Cat5 and Coax, it does the job and you can mix and match components from a whole range of manufacturers. (what happens if Abitana go bust in the future?)

                          Abitana are good at one thing, they produce a well marketed and presented system that people can understand, not many manufacturers have managed this, but in my opinion you can do far more for less money.

                          Nick

                          Comment

                          • vex
                            Automated Home Guru
                            • Feb 2005
                            • 197

                            #14
                            Re: Newbie home networking questions

                            Completely agree with you Nick.

                            The conventional methods using CAT5e and Coax is so flexible especially in todays homes with small rooms and limited layouts.

                            As I say in my presentations, the only real place that the Cat5-hybrid,7/8 systems work are in very large and open plan living areas where room and area functions can change from day to day.

                            The interesting variable to this is the new system from Scheider caller Delta8, using Cat7 baserd technology but passing TV, Telephone and Data to the same RJ45 plate and the same time, you then choose which service you want or even plug in a service splitter and get all three at the same time.

                            We just have some tests to do on it, to see if it will pass IR and then we will be selling it to the trade. Allong with our cat5e/coax systems.

                            Chris
                            www.intouchtech.co.uk (trade)
                            NOW PART OF INVISION UK, One of the leading home technology distributors to the CI Market.

                            Comment

                            • Bobmeister2K
                              Automated Home Lurker
                              • Jul 2006
                              • 6

                              #15
                              Re: Newbie home networking questions

                              Originally posted by vex
                              Completely agree with you Nick.

                              The conventional methods using CAT5e and Coax is so flexible especially in todays homes with small rooms and limited layouts.

                              As I say in my presentations, the only real place that the Cat5-hybrid,7/8 systems work are in very large and open plan living areas where room and area functions can change from day to day.

                              The interesting variable to this is the new system from Scheider caller Delta8, using Cat7 baserd technology but passing TV, Telephone and Data to the same RJ45 plate and the same time, you then choose which service you want or even plug in a service splitter and get all three at the same time.

                              We just have some tests to do on it, to see if it will pass IR and then we will be selling it to the trade. Allong with our cat5e/coax systems.

                              Chris
                              Hi guys,

                              This thread makes a very interesting read!

                              I have just bought a new flat with "Lexcom" cables throughout (3-4 in each room I think). There is as yet no termination and no central box - so as far as I can tell I just have unterminated cat5 cables running through my walls (although Lexcom call them cat7??) - is this correct?

                              Basically, what I want is an AV centre in my living room - Sky HD, HTPC, Home Cinema Amp and speakers, and then distribute the video signal from HTPC and Sky (SD is fine and what I expect to be able to send easily) to TVs in the 2 bedrooms, and audio from the AV receiver (i.e. music, sky, htpc) to these rooms also.

                              I also want internet network access in the living room and one of the bedrooms (preferably wired in both - although can live with wireless in the bedroom).

                              Is getting a Lexcom hub etc. the best option or is there a simpler (and cheaper) method for transmitting from my setup? What are my options price wise?

                              Thanks guys,

                              Rob

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