holiday home remote control heating etc

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  • grantdufeu
    Automated Home Lurker
    • Oct 2006
    • 2

    holiday home remote control heating etc

    Newby questions- advice sought. I'm looking to remote control (mobile phone ) our holiday home oil fired heating, X10 looks sensible option via any of the appliance switching modules (by-passing the existing timer controls) and using either telephone alarm unit switching ? SC 9000 or harmony control via internet connected PC. My questions are about the switched status of appliance modules and how Harmony (X10 system) knows the status if a manual / boost over ride has been used. The same would apply to X10 control of lights etc. What happens to the status of on/off if switched by momentary switches when harmony is then trying to apply timed 'occupation scenes' etc.
    I'm obviously happy to be using 'neutral connections' for appliances switching heating etc, but would like to use 2 wire micro modules for lights and avoid having to pull neutrals.....any help very greatly appreciated :wink: Grant
    Newby, probably daft questions - please be patient.
  • toscal
    Moderator
    • Oct 2005
    • 2061

    #2
    Re: holiday home remote control heating etc

    Many of the newer X10 modules are called 2 way modules. This means they transmit their status. So for example we have a 2way module set to A10. And you then switch A10 on either locally via a switch or via a controller of some sort. The module will then transmit A10 ON. All 2 way modules need a neutral connection. The live only lighting modules are not 2way. Which for some uses is OK. But if you need to track status then this can be a problem.
    Options for phone control are as you already know SC 9000. Another option is to use a Powermax plus by Visonic. This has a built in telephone connection. And as an option you can get a GSM unit so you could send a text to your system to turn on or off lights. There is also a web interface as well but the release of this has been delayed. The powermax plus is a little more expensive than the Sc9000. As far as I am aware non of these controllers have status tracking.
    If you are interested there are GSM X10 controllers (I can supply these, but the manual is in Spanish, but I could translate it), so you text a pin number then light on. ie 123456 light on and the light goes on. There is no status tracking with this controller either. If this is very important then you would need either an Ocelot controller from adicon or a Homevision controller from CSI, there is also a telephone interface for this. Or something like Homeseer for the PC.
    www.adicon.com for the Ocelot
    www.csi3.com for the Homevision.
    www.homeseer.com for Homeseer

    Ohh just remembered
    There is also an X10 to internet interface so you just need this box an Xm10 X10 interface and a 24hr internet connection. Connect the box up and hey presto away you go. It also has support for upto 4 IP cameras. Its not cheap. Can't remember the price but its about 4 to 5 hundred euros. Also the manual is once again in Spansih.
    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
    Renovation Spain Blog

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    • grantdufeu
      Automated Home Lurker
      • Oct 2006
      • 2

      #3
      Re: holiday home remote control heating etc

      Toscal, many thanks for very helpful reply. We have 2 separate fuse boxes in our home, suppling separate circuits and areas of the house. Does this creat problems with x10 signals crossing from one fuse board to the other, they are both MCB's with RCD board protection.
      Secondly do all the x10 units that use a neutral connection transmit their status? If you were starting a PC /internet controlled system which home control-software would you recommend.
      Thank you
      Grant
      Newby, probably daft questions - please be patient.

      Comment

      • toscal
        Moderator
        • Oct 2005
        • 2061

        #4
        Re: holiday home remote control heating etc

        For the software I would use Homeseer.
        Not all X10 modules with neutral are 2 way.

        As for the MCB / RCD problem the answer is yes and no. I have my controller near the lounge. My pool lights are controlled by X 10 and are on their own breaker box along with the pump. X10 signal path is via the main breaker box then into a smaller breaker box and this route is fine. The total length of wiring is no more than 25m. Now the garage and office also has its own breaker panel, and for some reason with this route the commands C10 ON or OFF don´t work. But C2 and C3 work fine. Wiring length is about the same. At the moment its not a problem as I only need local control for the office. So you may need to play around with the house codes. I do have a way round this problem which I will be experimenting with in the next few weeks and I will let you know how I get on.
        IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
        Renovation Spain Blog

        Comment

        • Jimll
          Automated Home Jr Member
          • Mar 2006
          • 42

          #5
          Re: holiday home remote control heating etc

          I would be very wary using X10 without status response to control my heating there are not many UK X10 modules that suport this feature. As a failsafe you could add a current sensor to double check the status of the heating.

          Also Homeseer has a cool wap plug-gin that you could use to control your home. also has a SMS plug-gin but that requires a bit more hardware.

          Jim
          James Clabon

          Comment

          • Karam
            Automated Home Legend
            • Mar 2005
            • 863

            #6
            Re: holiday home remote control heating etc

            I would tend to agree about having some sort of verified control when it comes to remote heating control. But I guess if its just a case of switching on the heating ahead of your arrival then reliability is not such a big issue - just an inconvenience when you arrive at a not so warm house. I'm not an expert on x10 statistics but I'd imagine that the possibility of an inadvertent switch ON would be rarer than the possibility of non-execution of a Switch ON command. Anyone have statistics?

            If you did want to consider something a bit more robust or even just alternative software, then you might want to look at the IDRATEK system. You might think it would be more costly or elaborate, but not many people realise that the Cortex software can actually control X10, RAKO and XPL without any IDRATEK hardware at all. In other words you'd get all the remote control, telephony, data logging, macros, scheduling, scripting, video camera handling, e-mail, web services and so on, but then also a basis for expansion to much more powerful automation. The addition of a modest amount of hardware eg. an IDRANet controlled relay to switch the heating plus a temperature sensor would provide more robust switching but would also allow remote feedback of temperature and would enable profiled temperature control.

            Karam
            IDRATEK LTD

            Comment

            • toscal
              Moderator
              • Oct 2005
              • 2061

              #7
              Re: holiday home remote control heating etc

              What you can do on mission critical systems that are controlled by X10. Is to send several X10 on commands to guarantee thats its turned on and likewise send several X10 off commands to make sure its off.
              Also remeber that a PC controlled system is also subject to PC issues, such as crashes, viruses and possible updates causing an unstable system.
              My X10 system is very very reliable. (I have a Homevision controller) I would say at least 95% and the other 5% being caused by power outages, finger trouble and forgetting to reconnect something after I have been tinkering about with the system.
              What I do recommend to get an X10 system working reliably is to fit a whole house X10 filter, play around with the location of the X10 interface either the CM11 or XM10. Another thing I have is a whole house surge protector, plus all my multimedia equipment is connected via a power filter and surge protector block. All computers are on their own filtered and surge protected supply, which will soon to be upgraded to a proper UPS as they are now at a reasonable price.
              IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
              Renovation Spain Blog

              Comment

              • wajcn50
                Automated Home Lurker
                • May 2005
                • 2

                #8
                Re: holiday home remote control heating etc

                I'm also starting to think about what automation I would like in a holiday apartment (in Spain - north of Alicante). Initially interested in keeping an eye on the place (I've got a couple of spare IP cameras) and looking at having broadband installed (a necessity when we are there if only for keeping the youngest happy with WoW!).

                The X10 to internet interface that you mentioned looks interesting Toscal (but the manual in Spanish could be a problem Do you have a link? Would it allow X10 devices to be added at a later date and controlled remotely without the need for a PC on 24/7?

                Any recommendations on broadband providers would also be much appreciated.

                John

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                • toscal
                  Moderator
                  • Oct 2005
                  • 2061

                  #9
                  Re: holiday home remote control heating etc

                  Hi just sent you a PM. As I live north of Alicante to we could possibly meet up.
                  IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                  Renovation Spain Blog

                  Comment

                  • toscal
                    Moderator
                    • Oct 2005
                    • 2061

                    #10
                    Re: holiday home remote control heating etc

                    Just found out why one of my modules wasn't working properly. It was the module itself. Odd really as it works when you send an X10 command on the same local mains loop. But doesn't when it goes via another route. Changed the module for another and no problem.
                    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                    Renovation Spain Blog

                    Comment

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