hometronic quick question

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  • nickdenker
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • Feb 2007
    • 22

    #16
    Thanks! For some reason the forum didin't email me that updates had happened hence delay.. not sure if still relevant but the firmware date is 22 Nov 2004...

    Do you think it would affect optimisation if the period that the HR80 is set to be a high temp is short? i.e.

    10.00 - 17deg
    18.30 - 21deg - this is one that always seems to start dead on
    19.00 - 18deg
    22.00 - 20deg
    23.00 - 17deg
    Nick

    Comment

    • NeilUK
      Automated Home Sr Member
      • Jul 2005
      • 71

      #17
      I would not have thought that the short occupancy period should have made any difference but why not try making it an hour or two and see what happens. How quickly do the rooms warm up and what is the temperature just prior to the occuapation period. It could be that there is no attempt at optimisation if either the actual temp is close to the required temp or if the warm up is very rapid. I've not actually seen the code so cannot be certain, I'm basing this in experience of other system that use self-adaptive fuzzy logic optimum start algorithms like those used in Hometronic.

      Comment

      • nickdenker
        Automated Home Jr Member
        • Feb 2007
        • 22

        #18
        will give it a go... also I suppose the other thought on that one is if the room has NEVER reached that temp? seems unlikely but is a bathroom with towel radiator which are less output.
        Nick

        Comment

        • NeilUK
          Automated Home Sr Member
          • Jul 2005
          • 71

          #19
          Originally posted by nickdenker View Post
          will give it a go... also I suppose the other thought on that one is if the room has NEVER reached that temp? seems unlikely but is a bathroom with towel radiator which are less output.
          I'd definately check the actual room temps in that case - although the HR80's are self-adaptive this only works if the measured response is within certain boundaries. If the actual response is outside of these parameters then the adaption cannot work. I suppose this may disable optimisation although it could just have easily set optimisation to the maximum 3 hour preheat. It would be good to hear the results of your tests.

          Comment

          • nickdenker
            Automated Home Jr Member
            • Feb 2007
            • 22

            #20
            Sorry not got back yet not managed to get definitive result as yet... One other thing I noticed and I'm guessing this is just "because"... if you set an HR80 manually, and you only have one setpoint per day - which in this case is 17deg at 23:00, just to make sure one room never stays on for more than the day, then as the setpoint HASN'T changed on the HCM it doesn't see to reset the HR80 back to 17 at 23:00... I'm guessing a workaround would be 22:58 to 18deg!?
            Nick

            Comment

            • nickdenker
              Automated Home Jr Member
              • Feb 2007
              • 22

              #21
              tests seem to prove that optimisation isn't working even on simple timings and no problem getting to temp.... Is there anything else that could stop optimisation working?? There seem to be a lot of stages set on rummaging, they were there from factory default. Do these have any bearing with HR80s??
              Nick

              Comment

              • nickdenker
                Automated Home Jr Member
                • Feb 2007
                • 22

                #22
                Originally posted by NeilUK View Post
                Are your HR80's using V1.1 firmware or V2? If V1.1 then have you changed the room parameters for max & minimum setpoint? If they are left at the defaults of min=5, max=30 then optimisation does not work even when selected. Setting to any values above min and less than max should make optimisation work.

                You can check the firmware version by removing the HR80 from it's coupling and briefly pressing the "teach in" button on the base. Should read either V1.01 or V2.00

                HTH

                Neil B.

                Just re-reading the thread - I guess V2.00 and V2.02 is neither here nor there?
                Nick

                Comment

                • NeilUK
                  Automated Home Sr Member
                  • Jul 2005
                  • 71

                  #23
                  Originally posted by nickdenker View Post
                  Sorry not got back yet not managed to get definitive result as yet... One other thing I noticed and I'm guessing this is just "because"... if you set an HR80 manually, and you only have one setpoint per day - which in this case is 17deg at 23:00, just to make sure one room never stays on for more than the day, then as the setpoint HASN'T changed on the HCM it doesn't see to reset the HR80 back to 17 at 23:00... I'm guessing a workaround would be 22:58 to 18deg!?
                  Yes, although I would pick 17.5 i.e. a 0.5 degree difference to ensure that if/whe optimisation does work then you do not end up with a potential for the heating coming on when not really needed.

                  Comment

                  • NeilUK
                    Automated Home Sr Member
                    • Jul 2005
                    • 71

                    #24
                    Originally posted by nickdenker View Post
                    tests seem to prove that optimisation isn't working even on simple timings and no problem getting to temp.... Is there anything else that could stop optimisation working?? There seem to be a lot of stages set on rummaging, they were there from factory default. Do these have any bearing with HR80s??
                    As long as the HR80s are installed correctly then there should not be anything preventing optimisation from working. The thermostat stages will not be relevent as they do not affect HR80s.

                    Do all HR80s suffer in the same way?

                    Is the room temperature directly before the setpoint change significantly below the required temperature?

                    Comment

                    • NeilUK
                      Automated Home Sr Member
                      • Jul 2005
                      • 71

                      #25
                      Originally posted by nickdenker View Post
                      Just re-reading the thread - I guess V2.00 and V2.02 is neither here nor there?
                      There was something changed from V2.0 to 2.02 but I cannot find any details on what it was! Don't recall it being anything significant.

                      Comment

                      • nickdenker
                        Automated Home Jr Member
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 22

                        #26
                        Originally posted by NeilUK View Post
                        As long as the HR80s are installed correctly then there should not be anything preventing optimisation from working. The thermostat stages will not be relevent as they do not affect HR80s.

                        Do all HR80s suffer in the same way?

                        Is the room temperature directly before the setpoint change significantly below the required temperature?
                        All seem to be affected the same. Tried a simple test on one making setpoing 21deg at 10.30. Room temp was just under 19deg and still only came on at 10.30am. Is there anything that could have gone wrong in the binding? I am 90% sure that before install, when setup as a test with just one HR80 on pretty much factory defaults, that opt. did work. Does the opt. rely on the HR80 being installed as a room temp sensor?

                        Am I correct that the HR80s are installed twice per room? One as controller and one as sensor?

                        Cheers

                        Nick
                        Nick

                        Comment

                        • NeilUK
                          Automated Home Sr Member
                          • Jul 2005
                          • 71

                          #27
                          How quickly did the temperature reach the higher setpoint after the heating switched on? If it was really quick then maybe the system did not bother with optimum start. Try a large temperature change i.e. greater than 5 degrees between actual temp and setpoint. If this makes no difference then I would try resetting the HCM200D & HR80s back to factory defaults & starting again. Bind your HR80's to the rooms, set optimisation to "on" and test. Bind a single HR80 as a room sensor and test again. It should not take too long and would rule out any binding problems.

                          Binding HR80s as room sensors should not make any difference to optimisation - I've had jobs with HR80s as room sensors and without and both worked as expected.

                          HTH

                          Comment

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