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Thread: DIN Rail modules

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    Automated Home Sr Member sonix's Avatar
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    Default DIN Rail modules

    I'm no electrcian, so it's probably above my head, but I am curious, what's involved in installing Din rail modules such as the LD11?

    Do you need individual wiring coming from each light to the module?

    Does that mean you'd have to re-wire all the lights if you wanted to have all your modules in a central enclosure?

    Thanks in advance.

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    Moderator toscal's Avatar
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    http://www.letsautomate.com/images/ld10wiring2.jpg take a look here. But essentially the wiring for each light has to go to were the LD11 is. I did this in my office. I don't have any normal light switches. The wiring for the lights goes back to the fuse box and the lights connect to the LD11s there. For a switch I use and ACT TK284 8 button transmitter. You can program each button individually so its quite versatile.
    Take a look here at a few photos. www.geocities.com/toscal/install.html

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    Automated Home Sr Member sonix's Avatar
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    Thanks for that, but just to clarify, could i simply add the LD11s inside (or near) my existing fusebox, and the get an electrician to wire up the lights.

    All the lighting wires must go behind the fusebox at some point.

    I guess what I'm asking is, in a typical house/flat, if you wanted to use LD11s for all / some of the lights, how would you go about doing it?

    Also where can you buy the TK284 from? and will they work in the UK?

    Thanks.

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    Moderator toscal's Avatar
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    The LD11s don't need to be in the fuse box, as long as you have a mains supply going to them and then the wires from the lights going back to the LD11s, I see no reason why you can't put the anywhere you like.
    Have sent a pm about the TK284.

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    The DIN Rail Modules control everything connected to that circuit. If you put them in your fuse box you would then have to runa new circuit to only the lights you wanted to control. You may find other methods cheaper and easier, as DIN Modules are proffesional units and are covered by Part P of the bulding regulations, therefore if you did install them in your situaation, they would need to be tested under Part P of the building regulations, by a qualified personnell.

    Other solutions could include the back box modules, LW10 wall switches or
    LM15EB/ES modules.

    http://www.theautomationstore.co.uk/...10_modules.asp

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    Automated Home Guru jpdw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theautomationstore View Post
    DIN Modules are proffesional units and are covered by Part P of the bulding regulations, therefore if you did install them in your situaation, they would need to be tested under Part P of the building regulations, by a qualified personnell.
    Surely this depends where you are putting the DIN modules? For instance, if they are in the CU/fusebox, then for certain they are notifiable under Part P (if in England / Wales). But if DIN modules are located in a suitable box downstream from (and connected to an appropriate MCB in) an existing CU then is this not "Adding lighting points to an existing circuit", which would not be notifiable (so long as not in a kitchen etc).

    The difference is important (to me anyway... as I'm planning work on the house ... to include a CU upgrade and HA installation - minimising the amount of reliance on the electrician is key to not only cost but flexibility)

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    The DIN rail unit could be seen as an extra switch point in it's own right.
    Putting a DIN rail dimmer unit in a CCU would require changing the existing wiring (daisey-chain/switchline) layout to a star wiring layout with dedicated cables from the CU to each light fitting and each switch point.
    Putting the DIN rail unit at a point that dosen't require a change to the wiring, puts it at the light fitting, wow, that will look ugly, the connections would need to be accessible, so you can hide it above the ceiling (unless its accessible).

    Also, in the warnings section of the user manual, it states that they should only be installed by a certified installer, I interpret this may invalidate the manufaturers warenty in it were not.

    You are best to seek advice from your local authority.

    www.theautomationstore.co.uk

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    Automated Home Guru jpdw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theautomationstore View Post
    Putting the DIN rail unit at a point that dosen't require a change to the wiring, puts it at the light fitting, wow, that will look ugly, the connections would need to be accessible, so you can hide it above the ceiling (unless its accessible).
    Yes that would look ugly... but follow my line of thinking for a moment... What about having a DIN rail in a suitable box mounted at a point that's convenient for several existing lighting circuits that you want to X10 ? The circuits are all supplied by a CU elsewhere (and fused/protected as usual).

    Going back to the OP's question, it would still mean some re-wiring. How much & how extensive would depend on the situation ... For instance, in my conservatory I have a convenient boxing/cupboard below the existing switch plates. Extending the (surface mounted) cabling will be very easy.

    But my point is that I'm certain DIN rail modules have a use other than just in a CU, and that (to my mind at least) surely mounting a DIN rail module in a box (other than a CU) is as part-p non-notifiable as adding a 2nd light switch to an existing circuit.

    Quote Originally Posted by theautomationstore View Post
    Also, in the warnings section of the user manual, it states that they should only be installed by a certified installer, I interpret this may invalidate the manufaturers warenty in it were not.
    "Certified installer" could mean many things, but presumably this is intended (a) as a disclaimer and (b) as strong encouragement that if you are mounting the DIN rail in a CU that you should employ a professional trained & regulated as approriate to where you are.

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    Moderator toscal's Avatar
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    I did something similar for a client. I mounted a small din rail box in the ceiling space (suspended ceiling) and placed 2 din rail modules in the box, wired up the lights and put the ceiling panel back.
    This part P seems to be open to different ways of interpretation. Luckily for the moment we don't really have this problem in Spain. Though we do have a few oddities.

  10. #10
    Automated Home Guru jpdw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toscal View Post
    I did something similar for a client. I mounted a small din rail box in the ceiling space (suspended ceiling) and placed 2 din rail modules in the box, wired up the lights and put the ceiling panel back.
    This part P seems to be open to different ways of interpretation. Luckily for the moment we don't really have this problem in Spain. Though we do have a few oddities.
    Over on the UKHA mailing list (which incidentally seems more active than the forum) I asked about a DIN-rail DP that looked okay in a domestic environment (after seeing someones HA piccies). In my conservatory example it's simply a way to have a neat solution without star-wiring all the way back to the CU. Part-P aside having DIN modules mounted in a separate box (even if adjacent to the CU) seems an advantage -- I would not want to do anything inside the CU but am quite happy working "downstream" in a panel fused & protected at the CU - isn't that just what a light switch or socket plate are?

    You are right about interpretation. Paraphrasing the text, work that is adding light fittings and switches "to an existing circuit" is not notifiable *. To add a light fitting and a switch you have to run some cable... and what's an existing circuit? Maybe I should ask my electrician to fit me a new CU where the lighting "circuits" just connect to an on/off on a seperate DP... now I can put in all the DIN rail modules I like without having to notify? (It is still a requirement that the work is done to the same standard though -- but at least I dont have to pay the council to take a look).

    Or maybe I'm mis-reading it entirely? Anyways, I'm coming to the conclusion that I need to try to have a chat with my local BCO as it seems each LABC has its own interpretation / level of enforcement interest....

    Sorry... this is going very OT now. Maybe we need a new thread "How do you interpret Part P?".

    ----
    * except spec location etc,...
    Last edited by jpdw; 5th November 2007 at 04:53 PM.

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