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Thread: DIN Rail modules

  1. #11
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    Default My Two Penny Worth

    Hi,

    I trained as an electrician many many years ago but the job i do now means i haven't had any current training. the original question asked about installing DIN rail units near a CCU. i assume that we realise that the only cables in a CCU are the main lighting feeds, and Ring Circuit feeds, there is no way to control individual lights from a CU or a position near a CU.

    if you want to control individual room lighting you would need to fit the DIN rail unit at the location of the light, you would also need to install a switch to overide it unless you intend leaving every light in the house on.

    the DIN rail unit has exposed terminals so it really needs to be fitted inside an enclosure, personally i wouldn't screw the DIN rail to bare wood then clip modules onto it i would bung it in a plastic enclosure.

    I don't think there is a problem with you doing the work under the new regulations providing you don't make the final connection. Get it tested by a professional who can then make the final connection.

    having just taken a quick look at the unit it has an input for a local switch, as the unit needs to have a live and neutral in order to function it would have to be fitted at the lamp, if you wanted to fit these locally at the CCU you would need to wire two two core cables to the room, one dropping off at the switch the other running up to the light fitting. this will cost a bomb to do as you would need to run two two core cables to every room.

    i'm not sure what the current trend is amongst sparks when wiring houses these days but if it is done using junction boxes there won't be a live and neutral at the lamp just a switch line and neutral, with a live and switch line at the switch.

    if it is done the three plate way by looping the live and neutral from ceiling rose to ceiling rose and dropping down to the switch then your going to have to fit the DIN module at the light fitting under the floor boards.

    Regards

    Mirv

  2. #12
    Moderator toscal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIRV View Post

    if you want to control individual room lighting you would need to fit the DIN rail unit at the location of the light, you would also need to install a switch to overide it unless you intend leaving every light in the house on.

    Mirv
    Not true.
    My LD11 modules are mounted in the consumer unit, for the office and I have full control over my lighting. All the electrician did was to run the lighting wiring from the lights back to the CU then connect this wiring to the LD11s. Sure if you want to use normal switches you would have to wire these switches back to the CU. I have 3 LD11 din rail modules each one connected to 2 mains halogen downlighters. As for control I don't use normal switches, see my first post here.

  3. #13
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    OK i stand corrected but would you really want to wire your house that way. Wouldn't want to try and pass that system onto a buyer

  4. #14
    Automated Home Guru jpdw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIRV View Post
    OK i stand corrected but would you really want to wire your house that way. Wouldn't want to try and pass that system onto a buyer
    Having the light fittings/ceiling roses run back to the CU or some other intermediate cabinet at least makes the cable more accessible than the variety of junction box I've found in the grnd floor/first floor voids of my house (including two that could only become accessible by removing the stairs!!!)

    If "star wiring" is a problem for selling then the din modules could surely easily(*) be removed & replaced with something more "conventional" -- either per-circuit switches/mcbs or even some neat & safe & accessible wall mounted junctions -- as part of getting the place ready to sell.

    (*) = of course if the din modules are inside the CU then removal becomes a part-p notifiable job... another reason I can see for putting them in a panel near to the CU (but not actually in the CU itself).

    Though social trends, technology acceptance & energy costs could make having the house all "HA'd up" a benefit rather than a disadvantage.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpdw View Post
    Having the light fittings/ceiling roses run back to the CU or some other intermediate cabinet at least makes the cable more accessible than the variety of junction box I've found in the grnd floor/first floor voids of my house (including two that could only become accessible by removing the stairs!!!)

    If "star wiring" is a problem for selling then the din modules could surely easily(*) be removed & replaced with something more "conventional" -- either per-circuit switches/mcbs or even some neat & safe & accessible wall mounted junctions -- as part of getting the place ready to sell.

    (*) = of course if the din modules are inside the CU then removal becomes a part-p notifiable job... another reason I can see for putting them in a panel near to the CU (but not actually in the CU itself).

    Though social trends, technology acceptance & energy costs could make having the house all "HA'd up" a benefit rather than a disadvantage.
    What you should consider is that in most houses the CU is fitted under the stairs, and in an average 3 bedroom house you would have to get the following cables from under the stairs up to the landing and then up to the loft
    2 x either 1mm or 1,5mm for the downstairs lighting and upstairs lighting
    2 x 2.5 mm cable for the upstairs ring circuit
    1 x 2.5 for the immersion heater (If you have one).

    ignoring the 2way switching for the landing and hallway lighting that adds up to 5 cables

    to X10 a house would require 2 cables per room for the lighting plus what ever is required for the power. Plus unless you knew anything about x10 anybody buying the house and wanting any electrical work carried out would have problems getting a spark to understand it. just converting a bedroom light from single to 2 way switching would require rewiring the circuit to to location of the box where all the connections are.

    in all the houses i rewired i managed to get the cables from under the stairs to the landing via the under side of the stairs and it was tight every time, i would not have got the 10 plus cables x10 requires via the same route.

    x10 would work if we adopted the way some europeans wire their houses, you run a cable to a small CU fitted in each room with 2 to 3 ways one for the lighting and one for the power, the DIN modules could be mounted in or next to the CU.

    Mirv

  6. #16
    Automated Home Guru jpdw's Avatar
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    I agree it may not applicable in all cases. But it's an option that
    (a) utilises DIN modules as the OP asked
    (b) avoids going into the CU, effectively extending the circuit "close to" the CU
    (c) may be useful to consider in case it is applicable


    The OP didn't state the layout of his house or particular areas to use DIN modules, but in my example, the understairs cupboard extends under the landing at the very top of the stairs (if you get my meaning)... so I'm lucky to have easy access to the ceiling void... getting to the 2nd floor would be impossible though, so anything up there would have to have "local control". Similar in my conservatory ... single light circuit feed to a "local" box with DIN rail, dimmer modules, then star-wire out to the 6 light fittings.

    As I start on putting in HA-gear to my house, the reaction of potential buyers in the future, and unfamiliar sparks is one reason why I think it's useful to include "back out" in the planning ... but I'm sure we now accept numerous bits of technology in/on our houses which were once considered "unusual" and potentially off-putting to buyers & tradespeople... time, fasions & norms change occasionally...

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