Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 83

Thread: Honeywell CM Zone - basic questions

  1. #41
    Automated Home Lurker
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SensibleHeatUK View Post
    I'd suggest taking a look at the new Evo Home controller - it provides control for upto 8 zones and will work just fine with HR80s and the BRD91 boiler relay module.
    Thanks for the feedback, based on a little bit of reading about the Evo (lots of documents here) I think I would need 3 BDR91 or HC60NG units (one for each floor/zone valve). Am I correct in thinking the HR80s would then be configured with the Evohome touchscreen as "controller" and the BDR91 relay for their zone as "boiler"?

    As far as I can see (looking at the application examples) the evo touch can't support zoning with both zone valves and radiator valves so if I wanted to create separate zones within each floor I'd need HR80s on every radiator and to disable the zone valves?

    Quote Originally Posted by SensibleHeatUK View Post
    It will certainly be cheaper than using lots of CM927s and gives you more flexibility. You can also add hot water control using the wireless cylinder stat from Honeywell too.
    I can see how it would be potentially more flexible but I'm not sure you're right about the cost comparison. If I've understood things correctly adding more zones to the evotouch beyond the three we currently have would require removal of the zone valves & fitting of HR80s (74.95 each) to all 22 radiators within our house (at a cost of 1648.90!).

    If we stick with the three zones I see the evo-home price breakdown as follows:

    • The evohome controller with one relay is 251
    • another two relays at 60 each
    • Two DT92 sensors/setpoint adjusters - 65 each
    • Total cost 501.

    This is still much higher than 3 CM927 packs which cost 102 for the stat & a relay together (total 306).

    Please let me know if I've misunderstood or miscalculated anything. One question I have about the HR80 is: does adjusting them to a higher temperature override the set-point for the entire zone or just the set point for that particular radiator?

    Quote Originally Posted by SensibleHeatUK View Post
    We've just added the Evo controller to our exhibition stand so you can take a look if you are visiting the HB&R Show at the NEC in a couple of weeks.
    Wish I could make it, sadly I live a long way from Birmingham.

  2. #42
    Automated Home Lurker
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Honeywell pointed me to it after I had purchased the CM Zone. I am as confused as you are about mixing controllers and HR80UKs in the evohome.

    An additional question I had when reading about it was whether it has Party and Holiday (as in, I am at home today, rather than I am away), features sorely missing from the CM67z.

    Still, I can answer the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by drbob View Post
    One question I have about the HR80 is: does adjusting them to a higher temperature override the set-point for the entire zone or just the set point for that particular radiator?
    Just for the radiator. The other radiators in the zone (should) remain shut by virtue of their HR80UKs, whose set-point does not change.

    But note that your boiler can modulate only by so much (mine can't at all). I don't know what effect to economy it would have to run a boiler for a single radiator and I hope there is a bypass valve or radiator somewhere in the system.

    I hope you get some answers to the rest of your questions, I am very curious.

  3. #43
    Automated Home Lurker
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Let me come back to this.

    Quote Originally Posted by drbob View Post
    As far as I can see (looking at the application examples) the evo touch can't support zoning with both zone valves and radiator valves so if I wanted to create separate zones within each floor I'd need HR80s on every radiator and to disable the zone valves?
    Here is how I read the application examples. Say you want two zones in a floor controlled by BDR91 or HC60NG. You set the zones on the evohome separately. You decide which HR80UK sensor drives each of the zones (only 1 HR80UK sensor drives the zone) and you add more HR80UK actuators as required. You need to ensure that all of these HR80UK are bound to the BDR91 or HC60NG controlling the valve.

    So I think. :-)

  4. #44

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drbob View Post
    Thanks for the feedback, based on a little bit of reading about the Evo
    You're right about the zone valve issue, I'd missed that when going over your requirements. Any of the main controllers can be used with HR80s and still control 1 zone valve using the Boiler Relay address slot in the device. Unfortunately you cannot asign multiple boiler relays to certain groups of rooms in Evo, Hometronic or CM Zone.

    I was working on the assumption you would be increasing the zoning with HR80s and therefore would need more CM927s to manage these additional zones. If you stick with 3 zones then it remains cheaper to use the standard CM kit although you don't get centralised management for holidays etc. Mind you with so many rooms over 3 floors you may soon run out of space in Evo too!

    With regards to HR80s, if you use the dial on the HR80 to change the setpoint this only affects that HR80, any others are unaffected even if they are part of the same zone. If you want all HR80s in a zone to react then you have to use the controller to make the adjustment (or a DT92e if also used within the zone).
    Sensible Heat
    SensibleHeat.co.uk

  5. #45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aekostas View Post
    Let me come back to this.



    Here is how I read the application examples. Say you want two zones in a floor controlled by BDR91 or HC60NG. You set the zones on the evohome separately. You decide which HR80UK sensor drives each of the zones (only 1 HR80UK sensor drives the zone) and you add more HR80UK actuators as required. You need to ensure that all of these HR80UK are bound to the BDR91 or HC60NG controlling the valve.

    So I think. :-)
    I'm not sure this will work either as the additional HR80s will not be sending their heat demand to the BDR91, in this mode the room sensor (the first HR80) is the only device that could trigger the BDR91.

    The Honeywell system is really designed with the standard S-Plan and Y-plan system in mind. The only way we have successfully controlled several zone valves feeding more local room zones is using the manifold controller where the HC60NG or BDR91 can be registered to the Manifold Controller directly rather than relying on the main controller to collate all of the heat demands (as it must when used with HR80s). This is because the BDR91 and HC60NG only be registered to 4 other modules so could not talk to lots of HR80s directly.
    Sensible Heat
    SensibleHeat.co.uk

  6. #46
    Automated Home Lurker
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3

    Default

    After a bit more thought and discussion with other family members I think we'll stick with the current 3 zones but get the evotouch & dt92s to control them. This would be identical to the system layout described on page 8&9 of the evo-touch application guide, except with three zones instead of two.

    It would be nice to have extra zones for the bathrooms and the lounge but I don't think the extra cost of fitting HR80s throughout the house is justifiable to achieve this.

    I notice that fitting a BDR91 to the boiler is optional. When fitted does the evotouch perform load compensation (e.g zone valve open but boiler off for part of the duty cycle to modulate water temperature down when close to the setpoint)? If this is the case isn't this direct load compensation, described as dangerous to non-condensing boilers by NeilUK earlier in this thread?

    Without a BDR91 on the boiler I assume the boiler is switched on/off only via the opening of zone valves and no load compensation occurs?

    With the above described zone-valve based set-up am I right in thinking we could still add a couple of HR80s as additional remote sensors to ensure all areas of a zone are at the set-point?

    Thanks for all the feedback so far.
    Last edited by drbob; 10th March 2011 at 01:49 AM.

  7. #47

    Default

    Boiler compensation is not really a feature of the boiler relay although it does allow some variation on firing based on load. However you can set the number of starts per hour etc so it is not the same as direct boiler compensation where the flow temperature is measured and controlled to much lower temperatures.

    There is a version of the boiler relay that supports the opentherm control protocol, this will allow compatible boilers to modulate their burner or water flow temperature based on percentage heating load from the controls system.
    Sensible Heat
    SensibleHeat.co.uk

  8. #48
    Automated Home Lurker
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SensibleHeatUK View Post
    you don't get centralised management for holidays etc.
    Sorry to insist, but does the evohome support Party and the Holiday-I-am-in-treat-it-like-a-Sunday mode?

  9. #49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aekostas View Post
    Sorry to insist, but does the evohome support Party and the Holiday-I-am-in-treat-it-like-a-Sunday mode?
    Honeywell are adding programmable Lifestyles to Evo, still not sure though if this is on the kit now available or to be added later (should be a firmware update). I'm still waiting to hear how many lifestlyes will be available and whether they allow time control rather than temporary or permanent (24/7) override of the timeclock etc. So this is a planned feature but exactly how it will work is still not 100% known.
    Sensible Heat
    SensibleHeat.co.uk

  10. #50
    Automated Home Lurker
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default

    I am up in the middle of the night because the HC60NG has decided to cycle a few times an hour (it should not be firing, but more than the 3 cph that I have configured it). That's with the CM67z set to OFF and also with its usual, low set-points (14 and 13.5).

    Things I tried:

    - Checked rads; other than the bypass (no HR80UK) all cold.

    - Pressed HC60NG button for 15 seconds, then again for 5 and synced with the CM67z; the red light went off and the boiler kicked in.

    - Checked the CM67z parameters, in particular:
    . 7:PE 0 (disabled)
    . 16:LC 0 (relay OFF)
    . 17:SU (actually 13:SU in my case): 0 (HR80UK enabled) and 2 (both HR80UK and HC60NG enabled) made no difference; 0 is my usual.
    - 6:tS is 2 (enabled for display and control)

    I will try to go around the house and remove the batteries from the HR80UKs tomorrow to see if I can eliminate it; I have switched the boiler off for now using its old timer so I can sleep.

    Any thought on how to address the dreaded problem will be most appreciated.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •