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Thread: Honeywell CM Zone - basic questions

  1. #21
    Automated Home Guru MichaelD's Avatar
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    I'm using a 6-zone CM-zone system and its all working very well, but I'd still rather have it controlled by the intelligence of a PC running HomeSeer.

    Does anyone know the wireless protocol that is used for the communication between the HR80 and the CM67z?

  2. #22
    Automated Home Sr Member NeilUK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelD View Post
    I'm using a 6-zone CM-zone system and its all working very well, but I'd still rather have it controlled by the intelligence of a PC running HomeSeer.

    Does anyone know the wireless protocol that is used for the communication between the HR80 and the CM67z?
    RF protocol is proprietry Honeywell and not published.

  3. #23
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    Thanks Neil. The software is version 2.20 which I guess is why nothing about adaptation appears in the display (would have been good if Honeywell has updated the installation leaflet!). What does setting it to "Full" do - have it either fully off or fully on? How can I reset it back to normal operaration (a full reset by reinserting the battery while pressing the binding button?).

    Did you find anything about getting info on the HR80 heat demand?

    Thanks again,

    Peter

  4. #24
    Automated Home Sr Member NeilUK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterH View Post
    Thanks Neil. The software is version 2.20 which I guess is why nothing about adaptation appears in the display (would have been good if Honeywell has updated the installation leaflet!). What does setting it to "Full" do - have it either fully off or fully on? How can I reset it back to normal operaration (a full reset by reinserting the battery while pressing the binding button?).

    Did you find anything about getting info on the HR80 heat demand?

    Thanks again,

    Peter
    Honeywell always seem to be a little slow in updating their documentation, I assume they must gets loads of support calls about these kind of things when something does not work as aspected.

    With regards to the "Full" setting, this relates to the amount of force used to close off the valve - if you hold the registration button long enough it toggles the mode between "Def" (default) where the closing torque is measured and used to determine valve closure. Setting to "Ful" (full) switches off this feature and should be used with non-Honeywell TRVs or older TRVs that might be "sticky" and therefore need a bit more effort to close off fully. Using Full mode means the HR80 uses a bit more power when fully closing in comparison to Default mode so this does reduce the battery life a little.

    I've drawn a blank on the HR80 heating demand, no-one I've spoken with has been able to help. I have emailed tech support in Germany but have not had a reply yet.

  5. #25
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    Default Another CM Zone question

    Like several others on this thread I am trying to do some presales research on CM Zone and getting frustrated by the lack of accessible information on the Honeywell websites. I'd be really grateful if someone could help me out with some very basic questions:

    1. With this house we inherited a number of radiators in built in covers which I am concerned will not work well with HR80s. Aside from the physical space constraint given HR80 is quite a bulky device (for which there is no alternative to checking myself) I am also concerned that temperature sensing on the HR80 will be confused by being in a confined radiator cover space. One of the pdf fact sheets that I could find online mentioned the ability to use an RF temperature sensor with these components but without mention of part numbers. The only items I can google seem to be intended for the HR50 and the Hometronic system. I think I have worked out that the CM67z can operate as a room temperature sensor to control its zone 1, but the cost of adding those mounts up pretty quickly because these covers are in a lot of rooms. Does anyone know of a simpler wired or wireless alternative for remote temperature sensing on the HR80 outside the radiator cabinet?

    2. If there is no alternative to using extra CM67s then I am going to need 8 of them to cover the house. Again the literature is patchy but I think I understand from an earlier post in this thread that I can bind 4 CM67z's to one boiler relay. Is that definitely correct? And is it also correct that most installers would be able to connect two boiler relays in parallel without particular issues?

    Many thanks again.

  6. #26
    Automated Home Sr Member NeilUK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJB View Post
    Like several others on this thread I am trying to do some presales research on CM Zone and getting frustrated by the lack of accessible information on the Honeywell websites. I'd be really grateful if someone could help me out with some very basic questions:

    1. With this house we inherited a number of radiators in built in covers which I am concerned will not work well with HR80s. Aside from the physical space constraint given HR80 is quite a bulky device (for which there is no alternative to checking myself) I am also concerned that temperature sensing on the HR80 will be confused by being in a confined radiator cover space. One of the pdf fact sheets that I could find online mentioned the ability to use an RF temperature sensor with these components but without mention of part numbers. The only items I can google seem to be intended for the HR50 and the Hometronic system. I think I have worked out that the CM67z can operate as a room temperature sensor to control its zone 1, but the cost of adding those mounts up pretty quickly because these covers are in a lot of rooms. Does anyone know of a simpler wired or wireless alternative for remote temperature sensing on the HR80 outside the radiator cabinet?

    2. If there is no alternative to using extra CM67s then I am going to need 8 of them to cover the house. Again the literature is patchy but I think I understand from an earlier post in this thread that I can bind 4 CM67z's to one boiler relay. Is that definitely correct? And is it also correct that most installers would be able to connect two boiler relays in parallel without particular issues?

    Many thanks again.
    The CM67 room sensor definitely can do what you need in regard to radiator controllers in cabinets. And the 4 module address limit on HC60NGs has also been confirmed by Honeywell themselves. There are no issues connecting the HC60NGs in parallel unless you have separate zone valves & pumps already providing some zoning of your system - e.g. ground floor zone pump & valve. If you do have this arrangement then you need to use the HC60NG to operate the the motor on the zone valve and the pump, then use the zone valve end-switch to operate the boiler. If you only have zone pumps then you need to use relays to isolate the pump and boiler switching.

  7. #27
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    Many thanks NeilUK for the help. As far as I can tell the system is simply a heating circuit and a hot water circuit so it sounds like I have a solution.

  8. #28
    Automated Home Sr Member NeilUK's Avatar
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    Don't forget to include a timeclock for your hot water, CM Zone only controls the heating.

  9. #29
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    Default HR 40 and HR80 combined ?

    Recently I installed 30 HR40.

    Now I read about HR80. Maybe I bought the wrong TRV.

    Now I have an oil burner, but soon a gas condensing burner with outside temp sensor.

    There are old wide (3cm) tubes with old beautiful rad in melted iron : it warms up slowly but keeps temperature for a long time.

    I see 3 solutions :

    1 Although everywhere I read not to have TRV functioning near the thermostat, I'm experimenting by setting HR40 temp as close as possible to thermostat temp in living room, so I get heathcapacity for other TRV when thermostat reached temperature. I program HR40 near thermostat in living room : TRV 22 in the morning when I don't need capacity on other TRV because they warm up at about the same time, and TRV 0,5 lower in the afternoon to create capacity in the evening for other TRV. Thermostat shuts down at 20 h 30 and still have heath in system until 24 h for office and bathroom because of wide tubes I guess. Pomp is still running then because connected to temp sensor on tubes. So at night I get all of the heath out of the system by using it useful in office and bathroom. Otherwise I think this heath is lost during the 7 h night I think.
    Then try to delay 0,5 drop in TRV, untill I lack heath in the evening in other TRV, then put difference earlier.
    For the moment I'm having good results with it but I don't know if it is the most economical solution. But seems to work. Maybe the success is also weather related.

    2 Install Honeywell zone with HR80, but I'm not willing to buy all new HR80.
    Would it be possible to use only 1 HR80, or maybe 2 HR80 by zone, the other TRV's in same zone being HR40 programmed to nearly same temperature and timing ?
    Like that I would also be able to create a small temperature difference in the same zone : a big office, warm near my desk, somewhat colder closer to windows.
    Or does the Honeywell zone controlling takes in to account the number of HR80 per zone to determine the burn time. If so my proposal would not work.
    I read good comments on HR80, but am still a little bit reluctant because of so called "fuzzy logic" and also because many things in the office are already wireless.
    Would the possibility to use remaining heath in the tubes in the evening without starting the burner, like I do now, remain with HR80 ?

    3 I wonder if there is no way of using all the HR40 without thermostat, and only starting up the burner by detection of waterflow (opening of TRV) and if temp in pipes < x.
    Of course this would require the pump to run from 7 am to 12 pm to be able to sense the starting waterflow when a TRV opens.
    This would create as many zones as HR40, I think.
    But maybe this doesn't work technically ?

    Guido.

  10. #30
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    Default CM Zone cycling problem

    I first posted on this thread over one year ago after problems with my new CM Zone system needlessly calling the boiler to cycle. Although I never solved this problem it seemed to become less noticeable so I forgot about it and hoped it had gone away.

    My system comprises 2 CM 67zs, 6 HR80UKs (3 in one zone rest 1 per zone) and 1 HC60NG.

    With the heating season back again, albeit with kinder weather so far, it's back with a vengance. The basic problem is that when the ambient temperature is slightly above the set temperature the boiler cycling comes on even through the rads stay fully shut and stone cold.

    This seems to be worse because of the warmer weather because the ambient temperature hovers around the set point - when it's colder the heating has to come on full blast rather than cycling.

    I have tried numerous different parameter settings but none make any difference. I've now resorted to setting the minimum on time to 1 minute (3:Ot=1) rather than the recommended 4 for my oil fired boiler, and cycle rate 3 per hour (8:Cr=3) so now it onely does it for 1 minute every 20 minutes. Still uses fuel to do nothing though.

    My questions are: Will the minimum cycle time of 1 minute do my oil fired boiler any harm; and does anyone else have this cycling problem and has anyone any suggestions how to fix it - are there any other parameters that can be adjusted to stop this (eg what does the Proportional Band Width parameter do- is it anything to do with how close to the setpoint the controller thinks about calling for heat?) Of course Honeywell documentation completely useless about any of this but I've come to expect this as part of the normal service.

    Any ideas would be gratefully received.

    Peter

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