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Thread: Honeywell CM Zone - basic questions

  1. #61
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    Unhappy Evohome

    Hello, I am having a bit of a nightmare trying to work out what is the best wireless TRV heating controller system or me, and I really hope some-one out there can help me. I have been weighing up Honeywell Evohome and Househeat (whether from Housetech or Conrad). - ?

    I almost bought a pack from Housetech, but then decided that I would want a Housemaster / FHZ100 to go with it. Housetech don't sell them and I saw a suggestion somewhere that they don't work very well. Then, separately, I read somewhere on this forum that in order for the FHZ100 to work at all, you need to buy FHT80 BTFN's (sold by Conrad). Not FHT80B, which is what Househeat sell.

    My attention turned to Evomhome as possibly a "cleaner" solution. Then everything went pear shaped again. THe more research I did, the more questions I built up. I contacted Honeywell directly to see if they could help me. I got a call from someone there who was not helpful to my quest. She said that Honeywell had released Evohome onto the market in the UK too early, that they had not yet trained the installers throughout the country on how all of the elements of Evohome work together, that she was not prepared to answer my questions because the system is very complicated and I can only have a qualified installer to visit me at my home and specify the installation. But she had no installer name to give me. She said I was welcome to go elsewhere and buy Househeat's product instead ! She said the kit should not be being sold on the internet as no-one understands how to use it, and that its completely different to CM Zone.

    So. Can anyone out there help me? I don't have a plumbed zoned system in my house. I probably need 4 zones (over 18 rads). I want a central controller. CM Zone obviously is not preferable for 4 zones. Does anyone have any views on whether the FHz100 sold by Conrad really works (PC Connect would not work for me as I'm a mac user and I don't to get drawn into "slugs"). And does anyone have proper experience of Evohome to be able to give me a view on which bits of kit I need. The following lists the questions that I had put to Honeywell (who refused to answer them).

    THank you for any thoughts that will help guide me as to which system to buy (which I'll be building up gradually, not in one go) -



    "HI, Are you able to help me on the following> I cannot find the answers in your literature -

    Whilst your old CM zone is clear to me, I am having trouble understanding all the Evohome components. Would you be able to help me with what I want to buy?

    I have 18 radiators. I will probably want 4 zones and one single overall controller. I would like zone 1 termperature controlled by the Evohome controller and zones 2 and 3 temperature controlled by DT92 room units.

    Is it presumably correct to say that I still need the HR 80s for all rads within the zones controlled by the Evohome and DT92's? So I could build up gradually and rely on HR80 control first and then add on a couple of DT92's in the future? And I would always need 18 HR80s, whether I use DT92's or not? Do the DT 92s show current temperature as well as set temperature?

    I don't understand which relay box I would need. Why would I choose the BDR91 or the Opentherm Bridge over the HC60NG?

    What is the difference between a DT92, a HCW82 and a HCF82?

    I have a hot water tank, currently controlled by a typical heating / hot water programmer. Do I keep that programmer for hot water, or add something else onto the Evehome kit. Does the "sundial pack" have something to do with this ...?"

  2. #62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by clareb View Post
    Hello, I am having a bit of a nightmare trying to work out what is the best wireless TRV heating controller system or me, and I really hope some-one out there can help me. I have been weighing up Honeywell Evohome and Househeat (whether from Housetech or Conrad). - ?

    I almost bought a pack from Housetech, but then decided that I would want a Housemaster / FHZ100 to go with it. Housetech don't sell them and I saw a suggestion somewhere that they don't work very well. Then, separately, I read somewhere on this forum that in order for the FHZ100 to work at all, you need to buy FHT80 BTFN's (sold by Conrad). Not FHT80B, which is what Househeat sell.

    My attention turned to Evomhome as possibly a "cleaner" solution. Then everything went pear shaped again. THe more research I did, the more questions I built up. I contacted Honeywell directly to see if they could help me. I got a call from someone there who was not helpful to my quest. She said that Honeywell had released Evohome onto the market in the UK too early, that they had not yet trained the installers throughout the country on how all of the elements of Evohome work together, that she was not prepared to answer my questions because the system is very complicated and I can only have a qualified installer to visit me at my home and specify the installation. But she had no installer name to give me. She said I was welcome to go elsewhere and buy Househeat's product instead ! She said the kit should not be being sold on the internet as no-one understands how to use it, and that its completely different to CM Zone.

    So. Can anyone out there help me? I don't have a plumbed zoned system in my house. I probably need 4 zones (over 18 rads). I want a central controller. CM Zone obviously is not preferable for 4 zones. Does anyone have any views on whether the FHz100 sold by Conrad really works (PC Connect would not work for me as I'm a mac user and I don't to get drawn into "slugs"). And does anyone have proper experience of Evohome to be able to give me a view on which bits of kit I need. The following lists the questions that I had put to Honeywell (who refused to answer them).

    THank you for any thoughts that will help guide me as to which system to buy (which I'll be building up gradually, not in one go) -



    "HI, Are you able to help me on the following> I cannot find the answers in your literature -

    Whilst your old CM zone is clear to me, I am having trouble understanding all the Evohome components. Would you be able to help me with what I want to buy?

    I have 18 radiators. I will probably want 4 zones and one single overall controller. I would like zone 1 termperature controlled by the Evohome controller and zones 2 and 3 temperature controlled by DT92 room units.

    Is it presumably correct to say that I still need the HR 80s for all rads within the zones controlled by the Evohome and DT92's? So I could build up gradually and rely on HR80 control first and then add on a couple of DT92's in the future? And I would always need 18 HR80s, whether I use DT92's or not? Do the DT 92s show current temperature as well as set temperature?

    I don't understand which relay box I would need. Why would I choose the BDR91 or the Opentherm Bridge over the HC60NG?

    What is the difference between a DT92, a HCW82 and a HCF82?

    I have a hot water tank, currently controlled by a typical heating / hot water programmer. Do I keep that programmer for hot water, or add something else onto the Evehome kit. Does the "sundial pack" have something to do with this ...?"
    You can always give me a call at Sensible Heat, we've been supplying Evo since launch and know it inside out :-)

    Based on your info then it looks likely that you would only need Evo with a boiler relay and radiator controllers. You do not need separate sensors (unless you really want to have them), and I'd be happy to talk you through the myriad options so you can make an informed choice about the system.

    Neil
    Sensible Heat Scotland Office
    Sensible Heat
    SensibleHeat.co.uk

  3. #63
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    Default

    Thanks Neil. I may do that. But any written comments from others to help me and those that have similar questions in the future will still help ...

    I should probably add to my above post, in fairness to Househeat who were very helpful, that they say that their own FHT80 B's will "talk to" a FHZ100. However that's not what some-one on this forum said, and so I got slightly cold feet worrying about the possibility of buying 90% of the kit from them, and then a FHZ100 from Conrad, and then finding that, in fact, it doesn't all work together correctly ....

  4. #64
    Automated Home Jr Member
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    Default

    I have just fitted an Evohome system (20 radiators and 8 zones via two controllers) and was surprised by how easy the system was to configure. I also added a DT92 as an after thought. Most info can be found here - http://products.ecc.emea.honeywell.c...g_evohome.html

    Written comments as requested:


    Whilst your old CM zone is clear to me, I am having trouble understanding all the Evohome components. Would you be able to help me with what I want to buy?

    I have 18 radiators. I will probably want 4 zones and one single overall controller. I would like zone 1 termperature controlled by the Evohome controller and zones 2 and 3 temperature controlled by DT92 room units.

    Is it presumably correct to say that I still need the HR 80s for all rads within the zones controlled by the Evohome and DT92's? YES UNLESS YOU ARE HAPPY TO USE NORMAL TRV'S WITH NO BOILER CONTROL SO NO BOILER SWITCHING ON OR OFF AT THE SET POINT (desired temperature). YOU MAY WANT TO DO THIS ON SECONDARY RADIATORS IN A ZONE LIKE A TOILET WHERE TIMED TEMPERATURE CONTROL IS NOT IMPORTANT. So I could build up gradually and rely on HR80 control first and then add on a couple of DT92's in the future? YES, I HAVE DONE THIS. ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS BIND THE DT92 AS THE SENSOR FOR THE RELEVANT ZONE ONCE YOU HAVE PURCHASED IT. And I would always need 18 HR80s, whether I use DT92's or not? YES, YOU JUST DO NOT USE THE HEAT SENSOR IN THEM AND JUST BIND THEIR ACTUATORS TO ENSURE CORRECT OPERATION AT THE PROGRAMMED SET POINTS (UNLESS YOU TREAT A RADIATOR AS A SECONDARY ONE AS OUTLINED ABOVE). Do the DT 92s show current temperature as well as set temperature? YES BUT YOU HAVE TO TOGGLE THE ARROW BUTTONS.

    I don't understand which relay box I would need. Why would I choose the BDR91 or the Opentherm Bridge over the HC60NG? BDR91 WILL DO FOR THE EVOHOME. OPENTHERM ONLY USEFUL IF YOU HAVE AN OPENTHERM COMPATIBLE BOILER FOR GRADUATED HEAT DEMAND CONTROL.

    What is the difference between a DT92, a HCW82 and a HCF82? DT92 DIGITAL WITH HCW82 HAVING SETPOINT (ROOM TEMPERATURE) ADJUSTMENT VIA A WHEEL. HCF82 IS JUST A MEASUREMENT DEVICE AND DOES NOT ALLOW LOCAL ADJUSTMENT.

    I have a hot water tank, currently controlled by a typical heating / hot water programmer. Do I keep that programmer for hot water, or add something else onto the Evehome kit. Does the "sundial pack" have something to do with this ...?" YES THE SUNDIAL PACK DOES GIVE YOU WIRELESS HOT WATER CONTROL BUT DON'T BOTHER IF YOU ALREADY HAVE A HARD WIRED SYSTEM.

    Try an EVOHOME pack ( EVOHOME Controller and a BDR91 Relay) with a 4 pack of HR80's first and then expand the number of HR80's as you get confidence.

    Jason

  5. #65

    Default

    The BRD91 and DT92 would be the better modules to use with Evo as they have more features (such as 2-way communications with the BRD91 or full 2-way set point adjustment with the DT92).

    The open therm bridge would offer improved boiler control with a compatible boiler as it can directly control the burner modulation to match the real time heat demand measured by the controls. However not all open therm boilers utilise the feedback in the same way so you need to check with the manufacturer to see what features they support.

    The HCW82 adjuster is a mechanical set point offset rather than allowing the setpoint to be adjusted to a specific value. Whatever set point is currently active has this offset added or subtracted for that zone, and so it must be manually turned to zero when no offset is wanted.
    Sensible Heat
    SensibleHeat.co.uk

  6. #66
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    Default

    Thank you so much for your replies jwxfs/jason and sensibleheat/neil. I think this gives me the confidence to buy a pack. And I would never have know to buy the BDR91 otherwise.....

    Opentherm sonds marvellous coming from a lifetime of gas and super efficient german boilers. However, having moved house in the last 12 months, I have just been introduced to the world of oil, oil prices, and oil fired boilers that don't modulate. Hence why I am desperate to save some money on heating. BDR91 for me.

    Clare

  7. #67
    Automated Home Sr Member
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    Default Upgrade

    I currently have the CM Zone system with three CM67z.

    It seems to me these do not work as a team and am also not sure if the HR80 radiator valves take any notice of the minimum on time or cycle rate settings in the CM67z as the HR80 talk direct to the boiler relay HC60NG

    With the new EcoTouch the HR80's only seem to talk to the EcoTouch and then to the boiler. Is this the case and thus does it better utilise the boiler cutting down unnessary starts?

    I also see it supports an outside temperature sensor HB85 which cost over 150.00

    Does this just display the temperature or can it automatically adjust the indoor temperatures like a weather dependant compensator?

    Lastly, have Honeywell offered any firmware upgrades for the EvoTouch?

    Many thanks.

  8. #68
    Automated Home Jr Member
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    Default

    The HR80's do talk directly to the Evotouch controller and the Evotouch can be programmed to your chosen recycle time. There is no need for the HR80's to talk to the relay if you have an Evotouch. Therefore it does cut down on necessary starts. The only issue is if you have more than one Evotouch as they do not seem to synchronize themselves.


    As for the HB85, I have found little information, same with firmware upgrades. Therefore I have not pursued either. I am sure an official Honeywell supplier might have more information.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by IM35461 View Post
    I currently have the CM Zone system with three CM67z.

    It seems to me these do not work as a team and am also not sure if the HR80 radiator valves take any notice of the minimum on time or cycle rate settings in the CM67z as the HR80 talk direct to the boiler relay HC60NG

    With the new EcoTouch the HR80's only seem to talk to the EcoTouch and then to the boiler. Is this the case and thus does it better utilise the boiler cutting down unnessary starts?

    I also see it supports an outside temperature sensor HB85 which cost over 150.00

    Does this just display the temperature or can it automatically adjust the indoor temperatures like a weather dependant compensator?

    Lastly, have Honeywell offered any firmware upgrades for the EvoTouch?

    Many thanks.

    HR80s do not register directly to the HC60NG, they register to the main controller (CM67 or similar, Hometronic Manager or Evo Touch), and the controller then registers to the Boiler Relay. This is because the Boiler Relay only has 4 address slots to register with other devices, so the controller collates the demands from all of the HR80s and passes the highest demand to Boiler Relay.

    Therefore the settings in the CM67 are definitely used regardless of the number of HR80s registered to it.

    The HB85 is not used for weather compensation (not a feature on Evo or Hometronic), and pretty unnecessary in a fully room-zoned system that uses non-thermostatic advanced control like in the HR80s. I'm not sure how relevent the HB85 is in the UK. It can be used for solar shading control (for our southern European friends) and with Hometronic it can also be used in security lighting applications (the sensor measures outsider temperature and brightness).
    Sensible Heat
    SensibleHeat.co.uk

  10. #70

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IM35461 View Post
    I currently have the CM Zone system with three CM67z.

    It seems to me these do not work as a team and am also not sure if the HR80 radiator valves take any notice of the minimum on time or cycle rate settings in the CM67z as the HR80 talk direct to the boiler relay HC60NG

    With the new EcoTouch the HR80's only seem to talk to the EcoTouch and then to the boiler. Is this the case and thus does it better utilise the boiler cutting down unnessary starts?

    I also see it supports an outside temperature sensor HB85 which cost over 150.00

    Does this just display the temperature or can it automatically adjust the indoor temperatures like a weather dependant compensator?

    Lastly, have Honeywell offered any firmware upgrades for the EvoTouch?

    Many thanks.

    HR80s do not register directly to the HC60NG, they register to the main controller (CM67 or similar, Hometronic Manager or Evo Touch), and the controller then registers to the Boiler Relay. This is because the Boiler Relay only has 4 address slots to register with other devices, so the controller collates the demands from all of the HR80s and passes the highest demand to Boiler Relay.

    Therefore the settings in the CM67 are definitely used regardless of the number of HR80s registered to it.

    The HB85 is not used for weather compensation (not a feature on Evo or Hometronic), and pretty unnecessary in a fully room-zoned system that uses non-thermostatic advanced control like in the HR80s. I'm not sure how relevent the HB85 is in the UK. It can be used for solar shading control (for our southern European friends) and with Hometronic it can also be used in security lighting applications (the sensor measures outsider temperature and brightness).
    Sensible Heat
    SensibleHeat.co.uk

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