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Thread: Ideas/comments on my plans please

  1. #11
    Automated Home Jr Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iainshaw View Post
    Another offputting thing is the BritishHomeNet website looks like it was knocked up in FrontPage with liberal use of paint.exe about 5 years ago. Might be capable, looks rubbish. That's not just internet snobbery,
    No, it proofs that you are arrogant.
    Quote Originally Posted by iainshaw View Post
    the site looks like its creators haven't got a clue what is happening in the wider technical world
    Or maybe concentrating on the primary product and not the "nice package"

    Quote Originally Posted by iainshaw View Post
    There are so many ways of doing this stuff very well over industry standard Cat5e or Cat6 cabling I don't see why you'd want to go off-piste.
    Yes, and again for you: You need additional device that cost extra money and are an extra area for faults to condition native signal to run over it ......

    Or are you denying this?????

  2. #12
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    I'm not denying that using Cat5e or Cat6 means using additional hardware. There are lots of people making them.

    Looking at the BritishHomeNet site, the connectors appear to be equivalent pieces of kit. Not particularly expensive but obviously you need a specific connector for a composite video connector or a scart connector. Couldn't see any HDMI or component but maybe they exist. If they don't then it means the system has limited application right now.

    Arrogance? Maybe. I'm making a serious point about credibility. If people want a system to achieve widespread acceptance then it has to look like it has a chance. That's a basic but important thing to do. If I'm going to buy into a proprietary system I need confidence that it's well backed, well funded and it's going to be around for a long time. Paypal shopping carts and animated gifs don't give me that confidence.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by iainshaw View Post
    I'm not denying that using Cat5e or Cat6 means using additional hardware. There are lots of people making them.

    Looking at the BritishHomeNet site, the connectors appear to be equivalent pieces of kit. Not particularly expensive but obviously you need a specific connector for a composite video connector or a scart connector. Couldn't see any HDMI or component but maybe they exist. If they don't then it means the system has limited application right now.
    Every system has limited application. We are not denying this but we are looking at using as much native signal as possible.

    Don't forget that HDMI uses about 15 or 17 wires. So no 8 wire twisted pair cable can carry this without electronic adapters/converters. So HDMI to RJ45 converters need to be used. However manufacturer is working on one with the MMC on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by iainshaw View Post
    Arrogance? Maybe. I'm making a serious point about credibility. If people want a system to achieve widespread acceptance then it has to look like it has a chance. That's a basic but important thing to do.
    point taken, but remember the dot-com bust? That was "credibility" build up over the net and has prove to a big eyewash and a failure.

    If the product itself can not build confidence itself by its functionality than you are better off not to touch it.
    Quote Originally Posted by iainshaw View Post
    If I'm going to buy into a proprietary system I need confidence that it's well backed, well funded and it's going to be around for a long time.
    Lets face it, that has nothing to do with a website and even a "good" website can't provide that. If a web space costs 25 per year that is no proof! The background is important. The manufacterer of the product is important.
    Quote Originally Posted by iainshaw View Post
    Paypal shopping carts and animated gifs don't give me that confidence.
    The paypal shopping cart is a test to find out if there is any interest at all in an online shop.

    And to the animated gif, that is an "under construction" gif as you know and only proofs the company has spirits and is not waisting money on high gloss presence but spends its money on the product and therefore customer advantage

  4. #14

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    Hi Pocky

    I have to agree with Ian, the site does look amateur.

    Whether we like it or not, so much relies on peoples perception these days, and a visitor will judge you and your products within the first few seconds of visiting your site. No matter how good the system is, a site like that will put some people off.

    This isn't meant as a personal attack - it's some advice from the friends here on Automated Home Forums.

    Thanks

    M.

  5. #15
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    Default Not meant to be personal

    Let me add it wasn't meant to be a personal attack either. When I wrote it I hadn't looked at the contact page and hadn't made the personal connection.

    so no offense meant. And yes I can be an arrogant swine sometimes

  6. #16
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    Just because a company has been around for 20 odd years is no guarantee that they will still be here tomorrow. Here in Spain one of the largest building companies is now in financial difficulty, and they have been around for 19 years.
    And I have to agree about the website. Also when looking for specific info such as photos and specs of the actual equipment this is very minimal. And in many places the site says this or that can be done but no real world connection examples proving that this is actually the case or how it is done, or how it all fits into the patch panel.
    While I think the product has great potential, and one I will certainly be watching with a lot of interest, many people are put off by the system using proprietary everything. As you need adapters for absolutely everything. This is also true of the Abitana system which uses a proprietary cable, and people are wary of this to. But once they see the system in the flesh and realise what it can they tend to like it more, I guess this is also true for the HomeNet system as well.
    I think having more than one product to choose from is a good thing. Competition is a healthy thing. And at the end of the day you will always get a person loving one product more than another. As they say one man's meat is another man's poison.

  7. #17
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    @toscal,

    agree, but the time a company is around in relation to credibility and future of the company is philosophical

    Believe me, we are working on the information, installation details, etc. If we would use the original information provided by the developing engineers even only about 15% of the users in this forum would understand!!!

    Just keep on watching the page ... one day it will even turn into a British one with a UK phone and fax

  8. #18
    Automated Home Legend TimH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pocky View Post
    But again, this is IT and not a conventional homes.
    No, that's not what I meant. As an example, Gefen (http://www.gefen.com/) make a plethora of high quality "retail" and "commercial" AV equipment and adaptors. Many of them pass signals over Cat5. They're able to do this because Cat5 is a universal standard. AV products are not predominantly "office" items but some offices require AV and most are flood-wired with Cat5 cable. It's not just about IT...

    Quote Originally Posted by pocky View Post
    Yes, two sockets and one light switch per room
    Oh come on! I challenge you to find any new-build property with a habitable room like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by pocky View Post
    The hardware for a three bedroom house including central unit and connection cable will be around 1300 net.
    OK, but how much is the cable?

    I tried looking up prices at http://www.britishhomenet.com/html/shop.html but none are shown and the shopping cart bit doesn't work
    There's also no plain cable or "central unit" listed.

    Quote Originally Posted by pocky View Post
    correct, one of the manufacture is in business since 1919 and part of one of the world largest cable manufacturer and the second company involved is in business for more than 20 years now with an installed base of more than 10000 houses
    Is this manufacturer the people that make the cable itself (Belden? BICC? etc.) or do you mean the development company behind British Home Net?

    Quote Originally Posted by pocky View Post
    so there is no big danger for a belly-up
    Now it is statements like that which really worry me
    It's like a football manager having the full confidence of the chairman, only to be sacked a few days later...

    Cheers,

    Tim.

  9. #19
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    TimH, this is getting ridicules as you are still not seeing the point! This is AutomatedHome.com and you are still referring to offices!
    Quote Originally Posted by TimH View Post
    No, that's not what I meant. As an example, Gefen (http://www.gefen.com/) make a plethora of high quality "retail" and "commercial" AV equipment and adaptors. Many of them pass signals over Cat5. They're able to do this because Cat5 is a universal standard. AV products are not predominantly "office" items but some offices require AV and most are flood-wired with Cat5 cable. It's not just about IT...
    Exactly what I wrote, you need an active AV adapter that is converting the signal even for the normal antenna reception programs and we are talking about passive connection cables! You know, the cable with a connector on each end without any additional electronic in it

    As to HDMI, we are using a 8 wire 4 pair twisted pair cable like Cat5, so all Cat5 stuff will work on it, but our cable has a larger bandwidth and can therefore do more "native" signal saving on active components.
    Quote Originally Posted by TimH View Post
    Oh come on! I challenge you to find any new-build property with a habitable room like that.
    You are taking my answer out of the context!
    Quote Originally Posted by TimH View Post
    OK, but how much is the cable?
    How much is one screw on a car? We are talking about an infrastructure as a system that can only be valuated with all components such as cable, termination, connection cable, etc. and with the consideration of all advantages.
    Quote Originally Posted by TimH View Post
    I tried looking up prices at http://www.britishhomenet.com/html/shop.html but none are shown and the shopping cart bit doesn't work
    There's also no plain cable or "central unit" listed.
    This is to avoid people "picking" without understanding the system. The products are available through custom installation and distribution partners. And, I am sure you have noticed, it is currently distributed through Ireland and will come to UK partners soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by TimH View Post
    Is this manufacturer the people that make the cable itself (Belden? BICC? etc.) or do you mean the development company behind British Home Net?
    Do you actually know what a manufacturer is? They are the people using cooper and plastic and machinery to produce a cable. And there are more out than Belden or BICC If you would look on the website you will find the link to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by TimH View Post
    Now it is statements like that which really worry me
    It's like a football manager having the full confidence of the chairman, only to be sacked a few days later...
    Do you actually know the difference of a commercial manufacturing company and a football club? You sure don't give the impression!

  10. #20
    Automated Home Legend TimH's Avatar
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    This will be my last post on this (honest!) as we don't seem to be understanding each other and we're moving away from the original thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pocky View Post
    TimH, this is getting ridicules as you are still not seeing the point! This is AutomatedHome.com and you are still referring to offices!
    The point is that the enormous installed base of Cat5 within offices makes it "easier" for manufacturers to develop products to run over Cat5, be it for traditional office applications, or for "home" applications. I'm not saying we should install office-only equipment at home, but as more Cat5 is installed into houses, many "home" products are taking advantage of that infrastructure, like the Gefen products (amongst others).

    Quote Originally Posted by pocky View Post
    ...our cable has a larger bandwidth and can therefore do more "native" signal saving on active components.
    Yes, I understand that.

    Quote Originally Posted by pocky View Post
    How much is one screw on a car? We are talking about an infrastructure as a system that can only be valuated with all components such as cable, termination, connection cable, etc. and with the consideration of all advantages.
    But other than a price delta for an "average three bedroom house" no other costs have been quoted. I can't fully evaluate a system if I don't know how much it costs. There's also no connection diagram (that I could see) on the website so it's not too clear how it all fits together. Some people don't care how it works, as long as it works; others like to get a bit more involved in the "tech".

    Quote Originally Posted by pocky View Post
    This is to avoid people "picking" without understanding the system. The products are available through custom installation and distribution partners. And, I am sure you have noticed, it is currently distributed through Ireland and will come to UK partners soon.
    I thought you said the cart had a different purpose in an earlier post, maybe I misunderstood...

    Quote Originally Posted by pocky View Post
    Do you actually know what a manufacturer is? They are the people using cooper and plastic and machinery to produce a cable. And there are more out than Belden or BICC
    Oh yes, I'm well aware of what a manufacturer is. I was trying to clarify whether you were talking about the company that merely assembles the cable to a pre-defined spec, or whether you were talking about the "brains" behind the system/cable.
    I now presume "Kerpen" is both inventor and manufacturer?

    Quote Originally Posted by pocky View Post
    Do you actually know the difference of a commercial manufacturing company and a football club? You sure don't give the impression!
    Yes, again
    I was trying to illustrate, as toscal also indicated, that business can be an uncertain world. What was a great company yesterday may not be around for all sorts of reasons. Marconi would be a classic example.

    As I said, this is my last post. I know that the HomeNet system is not for me, but I wish you well with it.

    Cheers,

    Tim.

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