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Thread: Kitchen wiring

  1. #11
    Moderator Gumby's Avatar
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    Hi Paul - I assume the primary reason you've done it this way was because it was easier to get the Cat-5 to wherever you place the DRH than get it all the way to the light switch position ?

    How did you get the bell-wire down to your switch plate ?

    As I understand it this means you have "normal"ish light switches and forego either LED functions or swapping in a DFP ?

    I guess we're going to have to create a FAQ and some diagrams for all the different methods ...

  2. #12
    Automated Home Legend Paul_B's Avatar
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    Main reason I wanted to it this way is so I can use decorative faceplates rather than Idratek switches (which aesthetically I don't really like). So I have brushed chrome retractive switches.

    However, the switches are only really for manual over-ride. Normally presence automation controls the lights so long as it is "dark" as sensed by a light sensor, this also illustrates the seperation of modules that we were explaining to Andy. The light sensor is part of a PLH module (PIR, Temperature, Humidity and Light Sensor) located in the master-bedroom. But the light level condition is supplied to the ensuite logical light object on the physical DRH module. Anyway back to the lights and switches, as an example after 00:15 the lights won't come on automatically. However, the switch can be used to over-ride the normal behaviour and turn the lights on.

    The over-ride (toggle is another control but subtly different) behaviour as natively exposed in Cortex didn't quite do what I wanted. The lights would toggle there state but then the over-ride stayed set so that normal presece detection would the not work. Hence I created two macros that link to the current light state (one for light off being true, one for light on being true). When the macro is satisfied it then waits for the switch operation and can turn the light on or off depending on the current light state. In this way the over-ride isn't used and so normal presence detection is unaffected.

    Running cable for me is easy becuase the house is modern with metal stud work and plasterboard, therefore nice conveniet voids. I just use some electrician rods (semi-rigid fibreglass rods) and feed them down the existig hole in the ceiling for the mains cable and get the labourer (sorry wife) to shout when they appear by the light switch patress.

    Hope that makes sense?

    Must upload some pics to my homepage.

    Paul

  3. #13
    Automated Home Ninja Andrew Millne's Avatar
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    Brilliant discussion going on here thanks. I almost have a workable plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_B View Post
    Must upload some pics to my homepage.
    Ditto, I intend to write a new blog entry outlining the plans for my node zero and kitchen very shortly, might even have a stab at explaining the wiring techniques with diagrams for the benefit of others.

  4. #14
    Automated Home Legend chris_j_hunter's Avatar
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    Default Kitchen wiring

    agree useful thread ... I'm at the stage where I think I've got it straight in my head, then I find I haven't ...

    the other issue that I'm trying to get straight is redundancy ... ie: how many separate circuits to have ... eg: when a trip trips, still would like to see (three lighting circuits / groups per room might be good, maybe) ... and what about Idratek - Reflex will help, but would two networks or loops, or three, off one PC (hopefully it wouldn't have to be more), be a good idea ... ??? How far to go ?

    >blog ...

    look forward to that ...

  5. #15
    Automated Home Legend Paul_B's Avatar
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    Don't get too hung up with the perfect design because in pratice you'll always forget something or during installation you get to the point where you do something different. Idratek is so flexible it doesn't really matter what topology you use, star, radial, ring or hybrid.

    I've gone for ring in the loft and then the first floor with feeds from Node0 in the garage to the two rings. The rings connect to a 6-way patch for each room. I then use a single cable from the room patch to the specific module. Reason I did this is I found trying to double wire each connecor too fiddly especially when bent double in poor light and itching from rockwool in the loft

    Paul

  6. #16
    Automated Home Sr Member wywywywy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
    b) Separate each lamp circuit (the set of lamps controlled by a single switch) and take a power feed back to central/per floor junction. Get Cat-5 to switch positions. You can now switch or dim the circuit at either the wall position or the central unit depending on modules you use, and can change it later.

    For a typical modern wiring scheme where the power is fed from ceiling rose to ceiling rose and the ceiling rose has junction to connect in the light switch this means replacing the single radial power run with individual "power" spurs from junction box to the "master" ceiling rose for each circuit.

    You would need to check the circuits, sometimes live and neutral are brought down to the light switch position - typically where there are multiple light switches.
    Sorry I am not too hot on wiring, so does this mean...

    - Have one dedicated "centralised" location at each room
    - Run one or more pink Cat5e from Node0 to each "centralised" room location (to carry live and neutral as well as data)
    - Run one or more pink Cat5e from each switch to its corresponding "centralised" room location (to carry data only)
    - Group lights in each room and wire each group in ring
    - Wire all lights rings in each room to the "centralised" location as a star

    Is this right???

    Thanks.

  7. #17
    Automated Home Ninja Andrew Millne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wywywywy View Post
    Sorry I am not too hot on wiring, so does this mean...
    - Have one dedicated "centralised" location at each room
    No this is not right firstly the centralised location is usually one location (could be more technically but for simplicity we'll say one) for all rooms not each room. In a "structured wiring" system all the lighting circuits from all rooms will go back to this location where they will have their own individual fuse/circuit breaker and a relay to take care of the switching.

    - Run one or more pink Cat5e from Node0 to each "centralised" room location (to carry live and neutral as well as data)
    The Cat5 is simply used for the Idratek Bus side of things and you should not get this confused with your mains wiring

  8. #18
    Moderator Gumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wywywywy View Post
    Sorry I am not too hot on wiring, so does this mean...

    - Have one dedicated "centralised" location at each room
    - Run one or more pink Cat5e from Node0 to each "centralised" room location (to carry live and neutral as well as data)
    - Run one or more pink Cat5e from each switch to its corresponding "centralised" room location (to carry data only)
    - Group lights in each room and wire each group in ring
    - Wire all lights rings in each room to the "centralised" location as a star

    Is this right???

    Thanks.
    You might want to google "radial lighting circuits" to understand how non-automated circuits are set up. Here's one to get you started: http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/lightcircuit.htm

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