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Thread: Full house Audio and Video - The last piece of the puzzle.

  1. #11
    Automated Home Legend chris_j_hunter's Avatar
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    Default Full house Audio and Video - The last piece of the puzzle.

    Tim -

    many thanks .. it's just that HD is such a minefield, with lots of dubious claims, if it' not very specific in the words & it doesn't have an HDMI connector, then I'm suspicious !! ... what sort of HD does it actually do / support ... and over what length of cable ... 760, 1080, i, p ... 10m, 20m, 30m ... etc ! ? !

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    Automated Home Legend TimH's Avatar
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    Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video) has this:
    Component video is capable of carrying signals such as 480i, 480p, 576i, 576p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p, although some TVs do not support 1080p through component video.
    Keith's KAT5 modules will carry AV signals great distances over Cat5 cable with negligible signal loss (www.kat5.tv). He can do modules with custom connectors as one-offs (BNC, RCA, etc.). I don't know whether Keith actively markets his units as supporting HD but several UKHA-ers have reported success IIRC.

    The big issue with HD over component vs. HDMI is that the copy protection, "HDCP" (see Wikipedia) signals can only be passed through the HDMI cable
    A secondary point is that you'll need separate cable(s) for audio if using component.

    HTH,

    Tim.

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    Automated Home Legend chris_j_hunter's Avatar
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    Default Full house Audio and Video - The last piece of the puzzle.

    Tim -

    thanks ... even so, so far as I understand these things, I'd have expected 2xCat-5e cables to be required to carry the HD information, certainly if it was 1080p, and maybe for the lesser ones, too, and that there would be limits on cable length (longer with the lesser ones) ... but this one seems to used only one Cat-5e cable ...

    eg: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI> quote: ... active cables (fiber optic or dual Cat-5 cables instead of standard copper) can be used to extend HDMI to 100 metres or more ...

    Chris

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    Automated Home Legend TimH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris_j_hunter View Post
    Tim -

    thanks ... even so, so far as I understand these things, I'd have expected 2xCat-5e cables to be required to carry the HD information, certainly if it was 1080p, and maybe for the lesser ones, too, and that there would be limits on cable length (longer with the lesser ones) ... but this one seems to used only one Cat-5e cable ...

    eg: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI> quote: ... active cables (fiber optic or dual Cat-5 cables instead of standard copper) can be used to extend HDMI to 100 metres or more ...

    Chris

    I don't pretend to be an expert either, but AIUI "HDMI" is different from "high definition video over component".

    Primarily, HDMI is digital and component is an analogue video standard.

    HDMI includes all the visual content as well as up to 8 channel audio, and the HDCP (copy protection) information. In contrast, "high definition video over component" is just the video stream and as such only needs 3 of the 4 Cat5 pairs... The 4th pair could be used for digital audio, and/or a second Cat5 cable for extra channels (typically 4 extra).


    Cheers,

    Tim.

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    Automated Home Legend chris_j_hunter's Avatar
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    Default Full house Audio and Video - The last piece of the puzzle.

    ah, thanks, analogue ... now I'm wondering about picture quality, as well as the HD standard ... can't believe it, sorry !!! I need to do my homework on Composite, but it's difficult to believe picture quality wouldn't be compromised quite a lot ... digital source, analogue conversion, baluns (presumably), long cable, baluns, conversion, digital again ... ?? Still, I've not tried it, or seen it ... could be wrong !

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    Automated Home Legend chris_j_hunter's Avatar
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    Default Full house Audio and Video - The last piece of the puzzle.

    sorry, should said Component not Composite ... and it seems Component can be digital, now ... not sure of the details, but presumably it's what Abitana are using ... seems unlikely the HDMI DRM-encryption would add much to the bandwidth demands, so I think I'd still expect digital Component HD (+ Audio) to need the same dual Cat-5e cable run, for the larger formats, if not all ... OTOH, great if not ! Maybe it's the audio that takes the second ?

    I've Googled, without bottoming this one, but I'm sure somebody knows ...
    Last edited by chris_j_hunter; 26th December 2007 at 10:27 PM. Reason: Audio extra, not included ...

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    Automated Home Legend chris_j_hunter's Avatar
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    Default Full house Audio and Video - The last piece of the puzzle.

    re-reading the Abitana news release, it does seem they use analogue video & digital audio, all going via one Cat-5e cable :

    http://www.abitana.com/index.php?id=49&L=0&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=20&tx_ttnews[backPid]=1&cHash=cae4cd11ec

    ... The connection of the A/V source to the Home Network is made by means of a Component Video adapter ABI-AS1003S00. This adapter draws the Component Video signal (YUV, YPbPr, YcbCr) and the coaxial Digital Audio signal from the A/V source and provides it on the RJ45 connector of the adapter. The Component Video is available on the green, blue and red connector (Y on the green connector, U/Pb/Cb on the blue connector, V/Pr/Cr on the red connector) and the coaxial Digital Audio signal is available on the white connector ...

    at least, they only mention digital on the audio ...

    so ... still seems a lot to be going through one Cat-5e ...

    anyway ... eaten too much, and best put my head down again ...

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    Automated Home Legend TimH's Avatar
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    Component = digital?? I'm not sure about that...

    Although, I wonder if it's the blind leading the visually impaired here...

    Component is an analogue standard, and that's what I reckon Abitana are doing. After all, "HD" is a resolution and not a transport method (HDMI = a transport method). And, confusingly, there are two (AFAIK) "HD" "standards": 720 & 1080.

    FWIW, a friend has a Pioneer 42" plasma (I forget the model #). This blows away *everything* else I've seen in the shops. He has it fed with the HD box that Virgin cable do (again, I forget the name of this, a bottle of Merlot later and things aren't as clear as they used to be... )

    It's also been said that the "classic" Xbox upscales SD DVDs to 720p "HD" resolutions amazingly well.

    There was a point here, which I think I'm struggling to make, which is perhaps two-fold...
    a) it depends what you feed the display with, and in all probability a crappy Freeview box will give a correspondingly crappy picture, and,
    b) a "proper" demo is required of whatever you decide upon, and also some competitive products, to make sure you can tell the difference and its not "Emperor's New Clothes" syndrome - much the same as you would audition proper hifi components...

    Sorry, a bit of a ramble. Maybe I should post in the morning when I haven't had quite so much wine...

    HTH somewhat...

    Tim.

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    Automated Home Legend TimH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris_j_hunter View Post

    so ... still seems a lot to be going through one Cat-5e ...
    But it is only video...
    I suspect the Abitana baluns put one "signal" over one core of the Cat5 so it is only a video signal being transferred and there's nothing else being superimposed over the top which would affect bandwidth...but I don't really know for sure...

    anyway ... eaten too much, and best put my head down again ...
    I know how you feel...

  10. #20
    Automated Home Legend chris_j_hunter's Avatar
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    Default Full house Audio and Video - The last piece of the puzzle.

    Tim ...

    many thanks .... think I'm like you with the wine ... that and that Austin Stevens guy with his snakes, who was on the telly this evening ...

    as you say, need to audition, but all this is relatively new, so not sure how easy that would be to do ...

    we're wanting to send HDMI signals to remote screens, around 20m to 30m away, as the cables go ... maybe four+ sources, not co-located, and maybe be eight screens, half not co-located ... hence my nervousness of anything analogue ! Screens would be nothing large - 20 to 30", mostly 24", probably, eventually, plus maybe a projector (or maybe something large). Sources would be AppleMacs & maybe a BlueRay player or two ...

    The Gefen products sound good & complete, but too expensive ! The Avrio products seem more limited (less ability of mix & match, sources & screens) but more affordable ... no doubt the market will evolve ... maybe we should lay just conduits & drawstrings & await events ... our budget would certainly encourage us to do that !

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