One Load Appliance Micro Module from automated@home locks up

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  • raven
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • Dec 2007
    • 14

    One Load Appliance Micro Module from automated@home locks up

    I have purchased the "One Load Appliance Micro Module" (X10-2267) from automated@home and all works ok or at least until it locks up. The device controls my landing light. I've noticed that when I turn an upstairs light on or off occasionally the landing will go off. Switching the landing light on/off or sending x commands has no affect. I have to go to the fuse box and turn the power off and on to the light circuit. Once the device is reset all is ok until the next time. Sometimes it works for minutes sometime for days. I mentioned this the automated@home and they sent me a new device however the new device also locks up. I sent another mail to Kevin but now I get now reply.

    Anybody else had a similar problem or not? There is no way the device should do this unless it has a: design fault; a build fault or I've wired it up incorrectly (which hopefully is a bit of a long shot). Please don't blame interference/noise or a weakness in X10 devices.
  • toscal
    Moderator
    • Oct 2005
    • 2061

    #2
    Here is a quick check list of things to look for.

    1: What is the Load the X10 unit is switching. 100w bulb 50w bulb etc.
    2: How do you control the device. i.e. Locally with a connected switch or remotely via some form of X10 controller if so which one.
    3: What code is the module set on.
    4: Are you using any compact fluorescent bulbs (energy saver type bulbs) upstairs.
    5: You say that it can work for days, does it always fail at night, during the day or is it random.
    6: What other electrical devices are on when the fault occurs. TVs, washing machine etc.
    7: Can you post a diagram of how you have wired it up.
    8: How much space is there around the module. It may be that if you are controlling it locally the switch may be interfering with the set-up button on the module. This one is a bit of a long shot though, but it doesn't hurt to check.

    In the instructions they recommend using a 5A filter X10-4813 if you are using fluorescent lights.
    Why do you say "Please don't blame interference/noise" as it may well be the problem. The X10 -2 devices are more resilient to noise and interference, so it tends not to be too much of a problem as with the older modules.
    Most X10 problems tend to fall in to one of 3 areas.
    In no particular order:
    1: Faulty unit
    2: Noise / Interference
    3. Collisions - more than one X10 command is being sent at the same time.
    Probably not that relevant if your set up is only one module.
    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
    Renovation Spain Blog

    Comment

    • raven
      Automated Home Jr Member
      • Dec 2007
      • 14

      #3
      Thanks for the full reply.

      Answers:

      1: The landing light is two 15w-ish energy efficient bulbs.
      2: Via the switch wires plus a CM?? controller thingy.
      3: A3.
      4: All my lights are fluorescent.
      5: Random. When I notice it's always when I turn a light on or off. When I try again it never fails. Sods law.
      6: There could be many as I don’t keep track but it fails sometimes when I go to bed so there is only the bathroom light on (or off) as the case may be, As I turn the light off the landing light goes off and I’m left in the dark.
      7: Hmm. Basically Live to L. Neutral to N and 1 to the light. The existing switch is connected to the two thin wires and does not carry mains (obviously). I can post a diagram if you think this might help.
      8: I’ve run a cable from a junction box to a rafter in the loft. The device is housed in a plastic box. No other devices of any sort are within a meter.

      The landing lights consist of two small energy efficient light bulbs (15w ish). As it is a landing light I used the original switches so it is the usual two way setup. I just connected the switch to the two thin wires of the device and live to the devices switches live to the light. Seems pretty straight forward and seems to work. I do have other devices and they seem to work ok. As an aside when I ordered my devices I accidentally ordered the dimmer. Although this did cause flickering with certain fluorescents I did get it to work and this device didn’t lock up. The flickering was annoying and I was about to compalin when I reaslised my error.

      I realise that X10 does not have collision detection and can be affected by noise etc but this should only stop X10 requests from getting through. It shouldn’t lock the device up. The problem with filters is that I believe it needs to go between the light and the device. Therefore I would need to fit a filter to every light im my house. This is totally unacceptable.

      Acceptable problems with X10 as I see it are:

      1) Noise prevents devices from working (While the noise is present).
      2) Signal strength may be insufficient for a given distance.
      3) Devices may be triggered by noise or devices outside of my house.

      I’m not sure I can think of any others. I’m quite happy with any of these issues.

      As I’ve tried two devices a faulty unit seems unlikely.

      Comment

      • toscal
        Moderator
        • Oct 2005
        • 2061

        #4
        From what I've been reading you have several X10 devices in your setup.
        I did think at first maybe the wiring in the 2 way switch wasn't done correctly, but after re-reading your post I think this is unlikely.
        Am I correct in thinking that for example when you turn off the bathroom light this will sometimes turn off the landing light module.
        The other X10 modules you have what are they connected to and what type are they.
        Have you tried the possibly faulty module on another circuit. Does it give the same results. By another circuit I mean something wired to another circuit breaker. What I normally do when installing micro modules or similar, is to wire them up to a lead with a mains plug on it. Then plug it in and program them on the work bench. You could use a similar approach when testing your module on another mains circuit. Makes for quick and easy testing.
        This is a bit of a long shot, but I have seen it effect X10 signals, this is the actual connections themselves. It might be worth checking the connections to the module and the switches, and possibly give then a slight tweak if they seem OK. Also check the bulbs to see if they are a little loose. And also check the other things connected to the same circuit breaker. As I said a bit of a long shot but you never know.
        Good Luck
        IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
        Renovation Spain Blog

        Comment

        • raven
          Automated Home Jr Member
          • Dec 2007
          • 14

          #5
          Thanks for the ideas.

          When I turn either the bathroom light off (or on) or my bedroom light off or on the X10 module in question may crash - i.e. It goes off never to come on without a power reset. Sometimes it crashes and I don't find the reason but I suspect it is one of the upstairs lights in my house, I just can’t prove it. I have never yet had a false X10 command to my knowledge on any device. i.e. One where the x10 device is switch on or off for no apparent reason. This is not the same as a device crash than I am experiencing.

          I suspect you are right in that it is lights on the same circuit. I was one step ahead of you and I have been testing the other module on the downstairs main circuit exactly as you suggested. So far, interestingly, this is still working (up time being about 24 hours).

          The only thing I can think of is the switch circuit connects to the old mains cable for the landing light switch. This does run close to other mains cable. Can power switching cause noise on this line? It may be nothing to do with X10 commands (or noise) on the power line. Perhaps there is a “something” and the device turns itself off automatically to protect itself only being reset when the power is reset.

          One way to confirm whether the switch is a problem is to disconnect it and just control the device via X10 commands although this will be a pain. Obviously these problems to me are small issues that I can work through. The problem is explaining the detail to my family whose patience is wearing a little thin.

          Comment

          • raven
            Automated Home Jr Member
            • Dec 2007
            • 14

            #6
            Update

            I've now confimred it is not the switch leads as I disconnected them and used an X10 module to control the light. It locked up last night so now I've tried about 10 foot of cable to see if that has any affect. A long shot I know.

            The test curcuit downstairs hasn't locked up once???

            Comment

            • toscal
              Moderator
              • Oct 2005
              • 2061

              #7
              If the test circuit didn't lock up then, the cause has to be something on the upstairs circuit.
              If you turn off the breaker for the upstairs lights does it turn anything else off.
              IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
              Renovation Spain Blog

              Comment

              • raven
                Automated Home Jr Member
                • Dec 2007
                • 14

                #8
                Sorry for the delay in replying.

                The problem with the test circuit is that it is not like for like. For instance there is no load on the device so perhaps that's important. The problem is the time it takes to deduce what the problem might be. What I suspect is that there is a problem with the design of the device and noise on the line can make it drop out. Had a similar problem with the CM11 usb lead. In the end marmitek admitted there is a problem with the usb interface. Since then I have used the serial interface and had no problem. Anyway back to the plot.

                As I needed a solution fast (to prove that home automation wasn’t just about fixing problems) I have purchased a PL CBUS device plus gateway from the same supplier. I have had no problems with this todate (about four days now. Fingers crossed).

                I also purchased a filter and intend to try it out with the X10 device although were do I connect it and does it allow X10 commands through it (i.e. does it just filter out noise). My plan is to put it down stream of the X10 device so I will be protecting it from all my other lights (in fact everything) including my X10 transmitter. This just leaves noise from the light it actually switches but I don't think this will be a problem.

                Comment

                • toscal
                  Moderator
                  • Oct 2005
                  • 2061

                  #9
                  The filter will also filter X10 signals.
                  It needs to be connected as Follows
                  Light-- Filter--X10 module--mains

                  You may want to look at this http://jeffvolp.home.att.net/xtb_files.htm
                  Last edited by toscal; 16 January 2008, 09:04 PM.
                  IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                  Renovation Spain Blog

                  Comment

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