Water Controls

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  • chris_j_hunter
    Automated Home Legend
    • Dec 2007
    • 1713

    Water Controls

    Paul seems to've found a good source of power meters ... has anyone found the equivalent for water (litres or cu.m), by any chance ... ie: reasonably accurate and affordable (& reliable) & Idratek compatible ! Ditto a water shut-off valve, hopefully quiet ... a meter & valve combination could be useful for stopping floods & giving measured amounts of water (bath, basin, kettle, cooking, etc) ... again Idratek compatible !
    Our self-build - going further with HA...
  • n07tv
    Automated Home Sr Member
    • May 2004
    • 52

    #2
    Chris,

    Many years ago a builder friend of mine showed me a product which was at the time called "Frost Guard". Essentially it was 3 items, a pressure sensor, a solenoid valve and a box of electronics.

    The electronics was programmed such that it had a 'water allowed' timer period for each day. The pressure sensor (which I think was a cheap item using a magnet in a tube which was held in a location by the pressure) was fitted just after the stop-**** and should it detect a change, i.e. water flow during the allowed period everything was fine.

    The other time period was for when no-one was in the house (work, holidays etc) and should a change be detected then it closed the solenoid valve which was fitted just after the sensor, hence closing off the water to the property.

    This proved to be very successful in preventing flood damge from burst pipes etc. Most of this income was insurance claims for such and he was buying these in for about £50 and charging several hundred to fit them - the insurance were more than happy to cover that cost.

    Sadly I lost touch and can't remember the exact details, but I am sure something similar could easily be done with the IDRATEK system ... I've just never got round to it,

    N.

    Comment

    • Paul_B
      Automated Home Legend
      • Jul 2006
      • 608

      #3
      Chris,

      One of the electrical sub-meter suppliers I found also do water meters:



      Not sure if all water meters would be able to use the RF bridge or you would need a seperate meter on your own property in addition to the water company one. As long as something can supply a pulse output it is very likely Cortex can read it.

      Paul

      Comment

      • chris_j_hunter
        Automated Home Legend
        • Dec 2007
        • 1713

        #4
        Water Controls

        Paul -

        thanks, I'd missed those particular ones ...

        they all (those included), though, seem to be large & elaborate & expensive ... I was hoping for something simpler for application more widely (the parallel to your power meter) ...

        'wonder how vending machines work in regard to delivering measured amounts of water - maybe the same approach could be used instead, for fillings cups, kettles, washing hands, etc ...

        ie: I'm looking to automate all our taps, through Idratek !

        Chris
        Our self-build - going further with HA...

        Comment

        • dazzlevw
          Automated Home Jr Member
          • Sep 2006
          • 24

          #5
          was thinking about this myself for bath filling.There seems to be plenty of options for solenoid operated water valves (http://www.betavalve.com/pdf/mini%20...ta%20sheet.PDF for example).

          The same people also have http://www.betavalve.com/flow.asp which may be useful.

          I've never used the company, just the first one that caught my eye atop my google search
          -----------------------------
          www.darrenwright.me.uk
          www.gbpvr.com
          www.slimdevices.com

          Comment

          • chris_j_hunter
            Automated Home Legend
            • Dec 2007
            • 1713

            #6
            well done, surprised I missed them ... looks to be just the sort of thing, up to 10 litres/min ... pulse output, etc ... latching option ... datasheet at



            gives good info' ...

            looks good for most taps around the house ... not sure about bath, 'though slowish fill could be OK if it's automatic, and less-noisy too, probably ...

            thanks !
            Our self-build - going further with HA...

            Comment

            • dazzlevw
              Automated Home Jr Member
              • Sep 2006
              • 24

              #7
              why thank ya....lucky find then!!

              As for the flow rate, i was thinking about having that meter in parallel with another larger solenoid valve, measuring a proportional flow with the solenoids triggered simultaneously.

              That's if it needed greater flow. As you say, lower flow may be a plus on a number of counts.Needs experimentation methinks.......

              And it can run off 24V so possibly use same power supply as for RVA's?
              Last edited by dazzlevw; 20 January 2008, 11:15 AM. Reason: addition of more random thoughts
              -----------------------------
              www.darrenwright.me.uk
              www.gbpvr.com
              www.slimdevices.com

              Comment

              • dazzlevw
                Automated Home Jr Member
                • Sep 2006
                • 24

                #8
                I've fired off an email to them to see about pricing and if they will supply in low quantities....I'll post back here if they reply
                -----------------------------
                www.darrenwright.me.uk
                www.gbpvr.com
                www.slimdevices.com

                Comment

                • dazzlevw
                  Automated Home Jr Member
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 24

                  #9


                  or this comes with a 3/4" bore for more flow....comes in at about £80 delivered for one, bit cheaper for larger orders....

                  they do a variety of different bores, up to 10mm direct operated, larger than that are pilot operated

                  more food for thought...
                  -----------------------------
                  www.darrenwright.me.uk
                  www.gbpvr.com
                  www.slimdevices.com

                  Comment

                  • chris_j_hunter
                    Automated Home Legend
                    • Dec 2007
                    • 1713

                    #10
                    >pricing ...

                    'was trying to work-out how many we'd need ... depends on pricing, of course, but taps are expensive and using these would mean no taps (idea being to get local blacksmith / steel fabricator to make us some spouts, threaded for gauzes at one end, blue poly'-pipe at the other) so there's some margin to paly with ... first cut would be :

                    basins, showers, loos etc - one each (one flow-rate at one temperature)
                    kitchen & bucket sinks - three (two flow-rates at two two temperatures)
                    machines - using these as isolators / sensors (one flow-rate & temp')
                    showers - one each (one flow-rate & temp')
                    bath - maybe two (for higher flow-rate at one temperature)

                    so that would be, say, forty off - if affordable !
                    Our self-build - going further with HA...

                    Comment

                    • dazzlevw
                      Automated Home Jr Member
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 24

                      #11
                      Hmmmm,
                      I was mainly concerned with the bath as regards automated filling, using http://www.screwfix.com/prods/98295/...ll-Wall-Valves style of spout but still retaining my existing taps to allow for manual reversion if needs be.The auto fill function would mainly be for setting it off remotely from the lounge/garden/M25 sort of thing.

                      The plug is a pop up affair that i can just pop a solenoid onto.

                      Kitchen wise I was just thinking of a kettle filler, perhaps with 4 different buttons for 2/4/6/8 cups.

                      I wasn't going to bother with the kitchen sink as I rarely find myself driving home thinking that it'd be nice to walk in the door and get straight on with the washing up!!


                      Ideas Ideas.....
                      -----------------------------
                      www.darrenwright.me.uk
                      www.gbpvr.com
                      www.slimdevices.com

                      Comment

                      • chris_j_hunter
                        Automated Home Legend
                        • Dec 2007
                        • 1713

                        #12
                        >Ideas Ideas.....

                        yep ... we were aiming to have the water fully automated, with no taps & no reversion ... not sure what sensors to use, though - IR , or IR + pressure-pad, or maybe some sort of knee switch, or beam, or possibly voice + IR or pressure-pad ... don't want it flooding the place !

                        Not sure have to have water outlets right next to basins & sinks, always ... for filling pans & buckets, it might work to have a pressure-pad, or other presence-sensor (rest the pan down, water flows, when there's enough, lift the pan, water stops) ... or for washing hands (take some soap, water flows for so long) ...

                        'quite like the idea of a Quooker boiling water dispenser (spray) in the kitchen, but with an automated tap, giving a cup at a time, or maybe using a four-button module to give four options ...

                        as you said, ideas, ideas !
                        Our self-build - going further with HA...

                        Comment

                        • dazzlevw
                          Automated Home Jr Member
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 24

                          #13
                          Chris et al....

                          Have had response from Betavalve, email copied below....

                          "Dear Mr Wright

                          I can offer the Following @
                          1. RF00175BC £44.43 each
                          2. RF00175BB £42.84 each
                          3. 1175BB £23.46 each
                          4. 6115BB £17.03 each

                          Please confirm electrical output required . I can offer less 25 % off the above prices for X 10 pieces .

                          Regards

                          Mohammed Nawaz "


                          data sheet for 1 & 2 HERE

                          and for 3 & 4 HERE

                          pricing not actually that bad I don't think?

                          Chris, it sounds like you want enough to get the 25% discount on your own but if anyone wants less than ten then maybe we could arrange a group buy to get the discount?

                          Cheers

                          Daz
                          -----------------------------
                          www.darrenwright.me.uk
                          www.gbpvr.com
                          www.slimdevices.com

                          Comment

                          • chris_j_hunter
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Dec 2007
                            • 1713

                            #14
                            >1. RF00175BC £44.43 each
                            >2. RF00175BB £42.84 each
                            >3. 1175BB £23.46 each
                            >4. 6115BB £17.03 each

                            OK, thanks, not too bad ... the first two seem to have 12 & 24V AC & DC, 110 230 & 240VAC power options ... the last two need 6VDC ... the last three latch, the first doesn't ... the first measure, the last two don't ...

                            am inclined to prefer mains power - easier, no special power supplies ...

                            pulses ... I guess it's down to Idratek & what are the settable parameters for the modules (QRI QRH ODI DIO and ... there may be others) ... I know time-frames are, but are number of pulses, too ? 'cos would need that, I think, if measured quantities are to be dispensed !
                            Our self-build - going further with HA...

                            Comment

                            • dazzlevw
                              Automated Home Jr Member
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 24

                              #15
                              Yeah I just asked for prices on a few of them that covered all options of latching/voltage etc... just so we could get an idea of the ballpark we were in.

                              I was thinking 24V and using the PSU-002 as I'll be having one to run the RVA's and so the power will be available in each room anyway.

                              Not sure on the pulse counts, needs research....
                              -----------------------------
                              www.darrenwright.me.uk
                              www.gbpvr.com
                              www.slimdevices.com

                              Comment

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