Smoke Detectors with Idratek

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  • KirasHome
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • Oct 2006
    • 37

    Smoke Detectors with Idratek

    Hi there,

    I'm thinking of replacing some of the smoke detectors in the house. I'd like to get some I can hook into Cortex via the digtial inputs. Has any tried this? And does anyone have any recommendations?

    Thanks, Jamie
  • Gumby
    Moderator
    • May 2004
    • 437

    #2
    Kidde do an interlinkable mains range of alarms and they have an optional "relay base" that can give a contact closure when active. Or perhaps it's NC - can't remember offhand.
    ----------------------
    www.gumbrell.com

    Comment

    • n07tv
      Automated Home Sr Member
      • May 2004
      • 52

      #3
      You would defintely need the isolation as all the interlinked mains smoke alarms I have seen are all floating at maisn potential. I never did work out if the 'trigger' wire came live on detection or went to neutral.

      As Gumby says, a relay based one would be ideal. Always thought it would be a good idea to automatically turn on lights in the unfortunate event of a fire.

      N.

      Comment

      • Karam
        Automated Home Legend
        • Mar 2005
        • 863

        #4
        Might this 12V one be suitable? :



        Neither tried this nor is it a particular recommendation, just remember seeing it in response to a similar query some time ago. Also note that it appears to have a maximum voltage rating of 14V so you may need a diode drop or two if you use with an IDANet running at its maximal 15V supply rating.

        Comment

        • KirasHome
          Automated Home Jr Member
          • Oct 2006
          • 37

          #5
          Thanks guys,

          I had a look at the Kiddie relay base and that looks pretty good. It's got both NO and NC connections on an 8A 24V DC / 8A 250V AC rated relay. It appears that the relay is driven from the interconnect link and it also says that you can connect up to "23 Mains powered Kidde Fyrnetics
          Smoke, Heat or CO interconnectable alarms" to the relay. So it appears any alarm going off would trigger the relay.

          There is a version with a smart interconnect that allows Fire and CO alarms to be linked, but I suspect integrating that would be a bit more complex.

          Jamie

          Comment

          • JonS
            Automated Home Guru
            • Dec 2007
            • 202

            #6
            I looked at mains based detectors including the Kidde one mentioned. I sent the spec sheet for the relay base to karam who considered the isolation between the mains and relay outputs to be weak. In the end I chose 9V interlinked units with 10yr batteries. Completely independent of mains, from a reliability and frying Idranet PoV, internal sounders (which some of the alaram panel ones do not have) and interlinkable with others, range of ionisation, heat and optical. IIRC these are from Ei via safelincs.
            However I have yet to interlink them with DIs (all cables (alarm cable) home run to N-zero). The plan is to use a "simple optical isolator" (the link signal is 9V), but just haven't had time to do it yet, not had time for any enhancements lately, but Idranet just works pretty well without intervention :-)
            HTH
            JonS
            JonS

            Comment

            • Karam
              Automated Home Legend
              • Mar 2005
              • 863

              #7
              Ah yes, if memory serves me I think it did not provide for segregation of digital (ELV) wiring and mains (LV) wiring so needed some sort of barrier to be fashioned, or both sets of wiring to be securely tethered in some way? Depending on other physical aspects you might be safe enough if you use mains rated cable for digital inputs. From a common sense point of view you have to consider if there is a possibility (and you should think of some feasible faults such as cables working/breaking loose from terminals) for ELV to come into contact with LV. Contact also means contact through an insufficiently rated isolation barrier eg. < mains voltage rated sleeving. Well IMHO anyway ...

              Comment

              • KirasHome
                Automated Home Jr Member
                • Oct 2006
                • 37

                #8
                Originally posted by JonS View Post
                In the end I chose 9V interlinked units with 10yr batteries. Completely independent of mains, from a reliability and frying Idranet PoV, internal sounders (which some of the alaram panel ones do not have) and interlinkable with others, range of ionisation, heat and optical. IIRC these are from Ei via safelincs.
                Thanks JonS, looks interesting. Any ideas how the signalling? Does it just take a signalline from 0v to 9v ? Is there any modulation? As you say an opto-isolator would be a sensible precaution.

                Originally posted by JonS View Post
                Idranet just works pretty well without intervention :-)
                That's very true :-)

                Karam - do you have any opto-isolators you particularly recommend for protecting the DIs ?

                Thanks, Jamie

                Comment

                • Karam
                  Automated Home Legend
                  • Mar 2005
                  • 863

                  #9
                  Originally posted by KirasHome View Post
                  Karam - do you have any opto-isolators you particularly recommend for protecting the DIs ?
                  I suppose there are quite a few out there. We use fairly common TLP621s elsewhere (5000V isolation, 6.4mm creapage). There are also multiple unit/package variants. If you're thinking of using these to circumvent the segregation issue then you're also going to need some sort of independent supply to drive the Optoisolator LED.

                  Comment

                  • marcuslee
                    Automated Home Ninja
                    • Dec 2009
                    • 279

                    #10
                    Originally posted by KirasHome View Post
                    Thanks JonS, looks interesting. Any ideas how the signalling? Does it just take a signalline from 0v to 9v ? Is there any modulation? As you say an opto-isolator would be a sensible precaution.



                    That's very true :-)

                    Karam - do you have any opto-isolators you particularly recommend for protecting the DIs ?

                    Thanks, Jamie
                    Hi All,

                    Old thread, but anyone know if this was the final definitive on a good option for smoke alarms + Idratek?

                    Cheers,

                    Marcus

                    Comment

                    • Geps
                      Automated Home Guru
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 136

                      #11
                      I have a smoke alarm that you can buy a relay expansion board for. I can't remember the part number but did get it from TLC.

                      Comment

                      • chris_j_hunter
                        Automated Home Legend
                        • Dec 2007
                        • 1713

                        #12
                        depends how many you need but, if it's more than a few, having simple sensors & a central control box could be a good / economical way to go - with an optional relay-out board fitted in the box to provide info' via digital inputs to Cortex ...

                        that's what we've done, anyway - so Cortex knows where the problem is, and can assist accordingly ...
                        Last edited by chris_j_hunter; 12 March 2012, 09:15 PM.
                        Our self-build - going further with HA...

                        Comment

                        • Geps
                          Automated Home Guru
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 136

                          #13
                          Originally posted by chris_j_hunter View Post
                          depends how many you need but, if it's more than a few, having simple sensors & a central control box could be a good / economical way to go - with an optional relay-out board fitted in the box to provide info' via digital inputs to Cortex ...

                          that's what we've done, anyway - so Cortex knows where the problem is, and can assist accordingly ...
                          Mind if I ask how much your system cost? I was looking at doing this and couldn't seem to get a figure below 4 figures, which for my size of house seemed excessive.

                          Comment

                          • chris_j_hunter
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Dec 2007
                            • 1713

                            #14
                            these don't seem that expensive :



                            our first choice was these :



                            but it's no longer clear how they would be used with a panel ...

                            in the end, we went with some of this ...

                            Our self-build - going further with HA...

                            Comment

                            • Geps
                              Automated Home Guru
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 136

                              #15
                              Ah! I should have known to check TLC.....used them for so many other of my supplies.

                              That second link contains relay bases the same as mine which brings us back on topic nicely!

                              Comment

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