HVAC Fallback - Room by Room Basis?

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  • Andrew Millne
    Automated Home Ninja
    • Nov 2007
    • 269

    HVAC Fallback - Room by Room Basis?

    I don't seem to be able to find a fallback setting for heating on a room by room basis only when editing the "All HVAC" object. Is this functionality possible? there is part of my house that can go unnocupied for extended periods of time and I don't want to heat it unneccessarily. I realise there is an unnocupied profile associated with HVAC object behaviours but a further fallback would be more suited.
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  • Gumby
    Moderator
    • May 2004
    • 437

    #2
    Yes, I think so. If you put an HVAC object in each room, on the controls tab you will see a fallback tickbox. You can control this from something else (macro, button etc) via the connections, it's in the "more..." dialog.

    I have an HVAC object in each room to allow different profiles and also disabling of heating by window sensosrs and door combinations.
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    • Andrew Millne
      Automated Home Ninja
      • Nov 2007
      • 269

      #3
      That makes sense now, so the "All HVAC" fallback mode will only apply to HVAC control objects that have the fallback option checked.
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      • Gumby
        Moderator
        • May 2004
        • 437

        #4
        Not quite - the checkbox on the HVAC behaviour dialog puts that (room) HVAC into fallback. Similarly the effect of controlling it via connections events.

        The ALL HVAC is an overall override. Probably intended for something like going on holiday, whereas the individual HVACs allow you to mothball particular rooms.
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        • Gumby
          Moderator
          • May 2004
          • 437

          #5
          Forgot to say that this is also reflected on the plan view if you have HVAC objects shown. They go from showing the temperature to "FB" when individually fallen back (!) and "All FB" if the override is used.
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          • Andrew Millne
            Automated Home Ninja
            • Nov 2007
            • 269

            #6
            Thanks Gumby this makes sense now.
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            • jpdw
              Automated Home Guru
              • Oct 2007
              • 169

              #7
              Warming up and old thread.. sorry... but it's related....

              Originally posted by Gumby View Post
              Yes, I think so. If you put an HVAC object in each room, on the controls tab you will see a fallback tickbox. You can control this from something else (macro, button etc) via the connections, it's in the "more..." dialog.

              I have an HVAC object in each room to allow different profiles and also disabling of heating by window sensosrs and door combinations.
              I'm trying to implement something like this at the moment ... I have an HVAC object per floor of the house (matching wet zones).

              I want to have a button on a QRI for each floor, acting as a "fallback toggle". Ie press the button #2 once, and 2nd floor HVAC goes to "fallback". Press again and fallback is cancelled.

              I can get it one way, by connecting the QRI button#2 output to "2nd floor HVAC enabled" but obviously that wont help disable the fallback on the 2nd press. I dont want to use 2 buttons either (I need all 4 for different zones :-) .

              Is there a way to create a toggle?

              Oddly enough, I have this working just great using reflexes (though its complicated) but now I try to replicate this in cortex...!
              Jon

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              • Andrew Millne
                Automated Home Ninja
                • Nov 2007
                • 269

                #8
                I've not gone into cortex logic in great detail but could you have the button connected to a logic object? that way you could have... if fallback enabled --> disable and vice versa? Gonna go have a play now because I'm just making an educated guess based on what I presume the logic object is for.
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                • jpdw
                  Automated Home Guru
                  • Oct 2007
                  • 169

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Andrew Millne View Post
                  I've not gone into cortex logic in great detail but could you have the button connected to a logic object? that way you could have... if fallback enabled --> disable and vice versa? Gonna go have a play now because I'm just making an educated guess based on what I presume the logic object is for.
                  So far I've not suceeded in making the logic thing do anything useful ... but what you say would make sense...
                  Jon

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                  • Viv
                    Automated Home Ninja
                    • Dec 2004
                    • 284

                    #10
                    Individual HVAC objects have their own fallback state (true-false).
                    The temperature setting for fallback however is taken from the All HVAC object.
                    The plan view icon will show 'FB' if the HVAC is in Fallback condition.

                    If the All HVAC object is set to Fallback then all the HVACs go to fallback. This is regardless of their own fallback state.

                    HVAC's that have local fallback still show 'FB' in plan view. HVAC's that are affected by ALL HVAC setting to fallback show 'All FB' in plan view.

                    Cortex 23.0.25 update: HVAC object now has Toggle Fallback option.
                    Led of button associated with a fallback change will now turn on for fallback = true.

                    Idratek.

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                    • jpdw
                      Automated Home Guru
                      • Oct 2007
                      • 169

                      #11
                      I think it's the toggle part that's causing me the problem!

                      I can see that there are input connections on the individual zone HVAC for "Fallback Enable" and "Fallback Disable".

                      If I connect a QBI button to the HVAC "Fallback Enable" input then I can press the button and... fallback is enabled.

                      My problem comes in trying to use the same QBI button as a toggle so on the 2nd press I want to connect to "Fallback Disable" ... or somehow have a 'state machine' that inputs to a generic Fallback connection (which would mirror the enabled/disabled state of the state machine). ... if you see what I mean!

                      Making the QRI LED behave is the easier part - actually I want it to follow the final enabled/disabled state of the zone value driven by a QRI relay... but I have the bit working so far.
                      Jon

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                      • Gumby
                        Moderator
                        • May 2004
                        • 437

                        #12
                        Viv: I'm running 23.1.25 and cannot see a Fallback toggle option, either under the connections for the HVAC object (expended under more), nor in the Global list when adding to a panel button.

                        Did you mean a different (ie future) version or are we missing something ?
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                        • Viv
                          Automated Home Ninja
                          • Dec 2004
                          • 284

                          #13
                          Sorry for any confusion.

                          An update is available for Cortex 23.1.25 taking it to Cortex 23.1.26.
                          It is Cortex 23.1.26 that has the Toggle Fallback feature.

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                          • jpdw
                            Automated Home Guru
                            • Oct 2007
                            • 169

                            #14
                            I've updated and that seems to do just what i was looking for.
                            Jon

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                            • jpdw
                              Automated Home Guru
                              • Oct 2007
                              • 169

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Viv View Post
                              Sorry for any confusion.

                              An update is available for Cortex 23.1.25 taking it to Cortex 23.1.26.
                              It is Cortex 23.1.26 that has the Toggle Fallback feature.
                              Hi ... I'm not sure if this is a bug / regression or "user blindness" but I think there is a mis-match the Toggle Fallback connections.

                              If I go to my QRI Buttons / Connections dialog and select to "add" to either of the rising or falling state boxes, I can list the HVAC / Toggle Fallback Event Port.
                              (Similar on the connections for the quad buttons module as well)

                              However, if I try to look at it the other way round... if try to see what is connected to the HVAC, the inputs listed in the "More" scrolling dialog include Fallback Enable & Fallback Disabled but do not include Fallback Toggle.

                              I guess this might be because Toggle either Enables or Disables so is more of a "logical" event port. But it still seems odd not to something on the HVAC connections.

                              On a practical point it's just taken me 15 minutes to figure out how I'd done 1 zone (via the button's connections) to repeat it with my other 2 zones (I was looking at the HVAC instead).

                              Hope that makes sense! (This is on Cortex 23.1.28)

                              jon
                              Last edited by jpdw; 13 November 2008, 05:03 PM.
                              Jon

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