Retro-fitting - Hints and Tips

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  • Andrew Millne
    Automated Home Ninja
    • Nov 2007
    • 269

    Retro-fitting - Hints and Tips

    I just tought I'd start this thread off for anybody who is retro-fitting to share ideas and suggestions.

    1. Always think at least two steps ahead. Run those extra cables you may or may not need you'll thank yourself later.

    2. Buy a set of electricians rods with adapters for gripping cables under tension.

    I've found when retro-fitting you have to think slightly different especially when some rooms are finished. Recently for example channeling the wall in the room next door then drilling through into the other at the appropriate point saved me from SWMBO.

    Anybody else with tips for the retro-fit?
    Visit my blog and Follow me on Twitter...
  • toscal
    Moderator
    • Oct 2005
    • 2061

    #2
    The electricians rods are a lifesaver.

    1 Plan the cable routes carefully. You do not want to drill through a pipe or cable. A cheap metal detector can be quite handy tracking a pipe that disappears into the woodwork.
    2 Retro fitting may mean slightly more cable as the most direct route may not be possible. So add at least 15 to 25% to the amount of cable you need.
    3 Think if all the cables will all go the same route and then split or each room's cables go a different route. So will all cables go under the lounge then split from there or is it better to route some via the loft etc.
    4 One of those measuring wheels is a good idea screw fix sell them quite cheap. Ideal for measuring the route of the cable.
    5 Lift floorboards (if you can) up first to see if the route you want to go is possible. Its better to check twice and lay the cable once.
    6 Remember ceiling voids if you have suspended ceilings can be quite handy for those cables.
    7 Write down the routes and take photos. Will you be able to remember a cable route 6 years later when you want to drill that hole for a picture.
    8. Keep everything neat and tidy. And make sure everything is labelled.
    9. Post pictures on Automated home.
    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
    Renovation Spain Blog

    Comment

    • Paul_B
      Automated Home Legend
      • Jul 2006
      • 608

      #3
      Andrew,

      Good thread!

      You have to think a bit more laterally on a retro-fit. In a modern house it isn't too bad because the plasterboard partitions have large voids that allow for easy cable runs. I have now got into the habit of doubling cable runs so even though I am flood wiring and sending CAT5 to every socket I am attaching two cabled where I only need one.

      The old adage of the right tool for the job seems to be more important than ever in a retro-fit, check-out:
      - Rout-about for making access holes in floorboards
      - Cavity master for holes in floorboards or walls
      - Fein Multi-Master (can't recommend it enough)
      - Electrician rods not a nice to have but essential

      When you start planning routes look at what already exists for example soil stacks can make great risers for cable runs. I find it easier to route cable around the loft space and then drop to the floor below or even the ground floor.

      Paul

      Comment

      • jpdw
        Automated Home Guru
        • Oct 2007
        • 169

        #5
        On the "think ahead" subject - if you're getting new carpet / flooring laid - consider if you will want cable laid underneath - better to put it under (even if you dont terminate) beforehand rather than having to lift the new floor.

        In suspended-floor-voids, if you might want to add cable later (e.g passing through to the next room) leave a string so you can pull through later, again, without having to disturb your new floor.

        *Whenever* you lift floorboards take photos. Use a small camera / cameraphone to snap images each way under the removed floor board -- it'll show up cables & pipes & obstacles much further than the removed floorboard.

        Get a right-angle drill gear or flexible drillshaft (both available from screwfix) - excellant for drilling upwards behind skirting - to get cables up into plasterboard divides that have been built on top of floorboards.

        Start a job early in the day / weekend -- as soon as you've got the floor up, you're gonna need a trip to Screwfix / B&Q etc,....
        Jon

        Comment

        • toscal
          Moderator
          • Oct 2005
          • 2061

          #6
          I think most of this is also relevant for new builds as well as for retro fits:
          Get the screwfix and maplin catalogues or similar and the phone numbers of the stores near you are also a must. Better to phone ahead first than to spend several hours looking for that special widget only to find they have just sold the last one ten minutes ago . Also the phone number of your local tool hire shop is a handy one to have.
          Talking of phone numbers have the number of a plumber handy. Drilling through a water pipe can cause a few problems. Mind you so can drilling through a mains cable. So maybe an electrician's number as well.
          Some Technical colleges hold weekend courses on plastering, basic electrics now with added part P. May be worth looking into.
          Write out a plan of your work and work to the plan. This also helps later when trying to remember what went where. And be prepared to have a few plan B's, C's and D's. And always remember that a certain law states that it will always take longer than planned. We where installing an automatic gate system and ended up having to rewire the whole garage. It must have been wired by a colour blind electrician.
          If you have tradesmen working in the house chat to them each day to find out what they are doing and also to tell them what you will be doing. I find a cup of tea and a quick chat does wonders for the days planning. There is nothing worse than spending an hour setting up and coming back to find that the plumber is now where you want to be. Also if you are working in a similar area you maybe able to help each other. Or while they are knocking out a hole for their stuff they can make it a bit bigger for your cables.
          Draw up a job list for the day and for the whole project. Nothing more satisfying than ticking those jobs off. Especially if you are ahead of schedule.
          IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
          Renovation Spain Blog

          Comment

          • KirasHome
            Automated Home Jr Member
            • Oct 2006
            • 37

            #7
            Great thread!

            Measure twice and cut once. Don't rush into the job, take time to think about everything, remember your going to have to live with this a long time. Node0 moved at least twice while we were planning it.

            Get a set of electrian's rods - as a couple of other people have said they are an essential, not a nice to have. I bought mine after seeing them recommended here. Worth every penny and then some. Get the cable grips, ours also came with a strong magnetic tip and a nifty small torch that screws onto the end. Great for seeing where the end is.

            Routers and router bits are great for cutting channels in plaster board.

            Get a couple of wire coat hangers - great for pulling, pushing and hooking cables :-) I have several stashed in the attic well away from SWMBO - for some reason women hate wire coat hangers and will insist on throwing them out.

            Take photos of everything!

            Double the number of cables you think you need to lay and then add a couple of extras for luck. I've never met anyone who wished they'd laid LESS Cat5 cable in their house.

            Cavity walls what haven't yet been filled with foam are wonderful for getting cables from the loft to ground floor.

            Look at all the things you just might possible one day in the far future want to automate and lay the cables for them NOW eg radiator values, automatic curtains, CCTV.

            As Paul said soil stacks are wonderful - straight from the loft to the kitchen / living room with no pain.

            Get an SDS drill with a chisel action (mine's a Bosch PBH 240 RE) - not only does it drill holes, it also makes light work of recessing 35mm patresses.

            Routabout for getting under wooden floors you can't easily lift.

            A long piece of flexible nylon rope with a heavy weight on the end for the places the electrians rods can't go. A small cold chisel works well as the weight.
            A Cat5 cable tester - they don't have to be expensive. I paid £20 for mine. Worth it's weight in gold.

            Comment

            • Viv
              Automated Home Ninja
              • Dec 2004
              • 284

              #8
              Probably against all the building regulations but getting cables down a wall cavity is not to difficult.

              Decide where you want your pattress. Drill out the complete square right throught into the cavity. Measure its position along the wall + the external wall thickness. This way you can decide where it is on the outside.

              Up a ladder on the outside of the house push back the second roof tile to reveal the nail that is probably holding the first tile. Remove several tiles around the point to be entered. Cut back the roofing felt to expose the top of the cavity. If it is capped remove the brick by drill and chisel.

              Inside put a 12v or similar bulb in the pattress hole through to the cavity. At the top of the wall look down the cavity and you should see the light (almost a religious experience :-). Eyeball down the cavity to make sure you will miss the wall ties. Using a length of 30mm waste pipe slide it down the cavity aiming it towards the light. Make sure to gaffer tape a length of rope to the side of the pipe so you don't loose it down the cavity!

              Look down the pipe to make sure its aligned towards the light. Cement an adapter to the pipe and add another length. Continue it down until it reaches the pattress opening. Tie off the rope temporarily to hold the pipe.

              In the pattress hole fit a 90 bend. Fill and secure with expanding foam or similar. At the roof end of the pipe make a board to cover the cavity with a hole in it to take the pipe. Secure the pipe with a plastic ring to take it weight on the board. Cover the board with cement of morta if required.

              Make a polystyrene plug about 3/4 the diameter of the pipe. Secure with gaffer tape a length of rope to the plug. The rope should be twice the length of the pipe. Lower the plug into the pipe at the top of the wall. Secure the other end of the rope to the roof lath. At the pattress end, suck the end of the pipe with a vacumm cleaner. The rope will come down very fast.

              At the top of the wall secure the cables to the rope (midway on the rope). Pull down the cables into the pattress. Detach the rope but secure the end with a piece of wood so when the rope is pulled back up the cavity, its end remains at the pattress for possible future use. Fit pattress as required.

              Plug the top of the pipe to prevent draughts and vermin. Repair the roof felt by slipping a new piece under the old. Replace the tiles.

              This technique does mean you can fill the cavity in the future with insulation.

              Viv
              Last edited by Viv; 23 December 2008, 11:27 AM.

              Comment

              • toscal
                Moderator
                • Oct 2005
                • 2061

                #9
                I've used the vacuum cleaner technique and it works very well. On longer runs or a run with a bend or 2 I have also used a compressed air blower it looks like a gun with a thin barrel at one end and the vacuum cleaner at the other. Being a diver we used a scuba tank for the air source. We used this method for running a mains supply cable from an apartment on the sixth floor to the meter in the basement.
                Never use more than 2 bends in a conduit.
                I find lubricating the cable with washing up liquid after the first metre has gone into the pipe, ensures a smooth ride for the cable and prevents your hands getting sticky when it comes to terminating the other end.
                Steel wool or similar works well as the plug to prevent insects. Though ants sometimes get through.
                Last edited by toscal; 24 December 2008, 09:15 AM.
                IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                Renovation Spain Blog

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