Newbie Help with wiring please.

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  • neilhooper
    Automated Home Guru
    • Oct 2008
    • 124

    Newbie Help with wiring please.

    Hi All,

    I've been reading the forum for months now slowly swallowing as much info as I can to be able to install and set up my system.

    Everything is still in the planning stage at the moment and I am actively sourcing products for my complete system. Obviously, I want to be as sure as I can that everything is going to work together. I realise that I've a long way to go but I'm not going to hurry this and I'm probably going to ask lots of questions.

    The look of 'what is on the wall' is very important to me and, without trying to upset anyone, the Idratek hardware is not the best looking as others have mentioned.

    I have decided to use these switches as Inputs to, for example, a QLD-001, but I am unsure if they can be used in their standard form. This http://www.itwactivetouch.com/pdf/AM...hes_Wiring.pdf PDF that shows several different ways that the switches can be used. So if anyone can give me any pointers as to the best wiring option I would be extremely grateful.

    Regards,

    Neil
  • Karam
    Automated Home Legend
    • Mar 2005
    • 863

    #2
    Looks like the open collector sink current normally open option is what you need (not digital output one). The 12-15V IDRANet supply could be used to supply power to the switch but you need to check the switch supply current consumption so that you can account for this in the spur's power bus budget. If so it would be best to supply the 12V and 0V from the connector at the module which is providing the digital input to the switch.

    Comment

    • pdwarriner
      Automated Home Jr Member
      • Nov 2008
      • 25

      #3
      Neil,

      Qprox (www.qprox.com) produce a range of touch switch ICs that may also be of interest. Perhaps they are not a finished product directly, but someone may be using them to produce such on/off touch plates or buttons and they may provide an alternative to the ITW range.

      Regards,
      Peter.

      Comment

      • chris_j_hunter
        Automated Home Legend
        • Dec 2007
        • 1713

        #4
        just a thought - you could use ordinary switches, of any style, too ... working across digital inputs of Idratek modules ... not sure what the guidelines might be for doing this (cable lengths etc, filters sometimes, etc), but we've in-mind to do this in a few places, using individual switches on their own & in home-made arrays of various sorts (eg: to prompt solenoid valves, to trigger timers, to give manual switching of task lights, etc) - not decided which, yet, but this sort of thing :









        according to circumstance ... with the illuminated ones for when finding oneself in the dark, perhaps ...

        must say, though, we do prefer the Idratek modules to just about all switch plates we've seen, apart from perhaps the ones designed for architaves ... this sort of thing is very personal, of course, but how they're incorporated can have a big effect ...
        Last edited by chris_j_hunter; 6 February 2009, 05:03 PM. Reason: typos, d'typos
        Our self-build - going further with HA...

        Comment

        • neilhooper
          Automated Home Guru
          • Oct 2008
          • 124

          #5
          Thanks Karam,

          The switches are rated at <5ma, not a massive amount, but of course several of them will soon mount up !!

          While I'm here, there seems to little mention of being able to use a remote control with the system. The reason that I ask is that I have managed to automate the closing and opening my blinds (using X10, but X10 isn't brilliant) and sometimes I would like to operate them outside of their normal times.

          Regards,

          Neil

          Comment

          • neilhooper
            Automated Home Guru
            • Oct 2008
            • 124

            #6
            Thanks Peter,

            Have had a look but they're not really what I'm looking for.

            Regards,

            Neil

            Comment

            • neilhooper
              Automated Home Guru
              • Oct 2008
              • 124

              #7
              Originally posted by chris_j_hunter View Post
              just a thought - you could use ordinary switches, of any style, too ... working across digital inputs of Idratek modules ... not sure what the guidelines might be for doing this (cable lengths etc, filters sometimes, etc), but we've in-mind to do this in a few places, using individual switches on their own & in home-made arrays of various sorts (eg: to prompt solenoid valves, to trigger timers, to give manual switching of task lights, etc) - not decided which, yet, but this sort of thing :









              according to circumstance ... with the illuminated ones for when finding oneself in the dark, perhaps ...

              must say, though, we do prefer the Idratek modules to just about all switch plates we've seen, apart from perhaps the ones designed for architaves ... this sort of thing is very personal, of course, but how they're incorporated can have a big effect ...
              Um, yeah ....

              Would you want to put any of them on show in your lounge ?

              Some of my alternatives apart from the one I've chosen are




              Or if I want illumination



              There are lot's of choices out there, some with dot illumination, some with ring or halo illumination....

              One of the advantages of the ITW switch is that, if you wanted to, you can even use them under water. Not that I want to, but maybe in the bathroom or kitchen

              Unfortunately a big disadvantage of the ITW switches is cost, they could come out at about £11 each but I'm only going to do this once and a little bit at a time.

              Comment

              • chris_j_hunter
                Automated Home Legend
                • Dec 2007
                • 1713

                #8
                Yep, quite agree ... had the Maplin ones on my list, too, for external use (front door push, etc) but not the ITW ones - good find ! Still, as you say - gets expensive if more than a few.

                Of course, appearance is one angle, but tactility is another - so far, it's proving difficult to find something that's good for both !

                Another point is the illumination - options seem to be neon (ie: mains voltage) or LED (at 2.2VDC) ... both of which could be tricky, if switching's to be done via the HA, Idratek in this case (dropping down to 2.2V from Idratek's convenient 15V via a simple resistor would really be OK only if it's to be lit just for short spells).

                As regards remote control, how about doing this via iPhone / iPod Touch - via xAP (ie: xAp providing the interface into Cortex) ? IIRC, both Paul & Kevin were looking to go that way ...

                Chris
                Last edited by chris_j_hunter; 7 February 2009, 11:56 PM.
                Our self-build - going further with HA...

                Comment

                • neilhooper
                  Automated Home Guru
                  • Oct 2008
                  • 124

                  #9
                  Originally posted by chris_j_hunter View Post
                  Yep, quite agree ... had the Maplin ones on my list, too, for external use (front door push, etc) but not the ITW ones - good find ! Still, as you say - gets expensive if more than a few.

                  Of course, appearance is one angle, but tactility is another - so far, it's proving difficult to find something that's good for both !

                  Another point is the illumination - options seem to be neon (ie: mains voltage) or LED (at 2.2VDC) ... both of which could be tricky, if switching's to be done via the HA, Idratek in this case (dropping down to 2.2V from Idratek's convenient 15V via a simple resistor would really be OK only if it's to be lit just for short spells).

                  As regards remote control, how about doing this via iPhone / iPod Touch - via xAP (ie: xAp providing the interface into Cortex) ? IIRC, both Paul & Kevin were looking to go that way ...

                  Chris
                  Hi Chris,

                  I've found that the ITW switches can have the option of a little kit to make them tactile and a kit to make them illuminated.

                  Regarding the switch illumination I have built this power supply http://www.eleinmec.com/article.asp?16 yes, I know it's on the Mecano web site but it works flawlesly. The articles contained within the main article are worth a read if this sort of thing interests you.

                  I've made a couple of small improvements to the design, only cosmetic, as the board that it is all mounted on has enough room on it to mount the transformer as well. I'll take a picture of it if you're interested.

                  I haven't found one yet but I suspect that there is regulator that could output a lower voltage than the 5V that I've got at the moment. Maybe an adjustable one ?

                  Anyway I intend to turn on my switch illumination using this power supply via Idratek when it's dusk and off again in the morning.

                  Regarding the remote control I'd love to use iPod Touch but it does seem a little extravagant when I want at least five dotted around the house.

                  I'm using X10 one's at the moment and I know that X10 can be interfaced with Idratek but the X10 communication is so unreliable ... it just winds me up when I've got to sit there sometimes for 30 seconds before anything happens

                  I'm looking for a solution that's somewhere in between but works.

                  Neil

                  Comment

                  • Karam
                    Automated Home Legend
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 863

                    #10
                    Originally posted by neilhooper View Post
                    While I'm here, there seems to little mention of being able to use a remote control with the system. The reason that I ask is that I have managed to automate the closing and opening my blinds (using X10, but X10 isn't brilliant) and sometimes I would like to operate them outside of their normal times.
                    Your question is a bit unclear to me, but if you mean remote control input into the IDRATEK system then you can just use some off the shelf IR handset; either a very basic one or perhaps one of those with an LCD display for example. You can then train a conveniently located IDRANet IR receiver or transceiver module with codes from the handset. If you mean remote control of appliances via the system, eg. if curtains can be controlled by IR, then you could probably train an IDRANet IR transmitter with the curtain controller codes and then get the system to issue these as you see fit.

                    As for the issue of buttons/looks/functionality, for some locations might it be worthwhile considering the new DFP module?http://www.idratek.com/HWSensor.htm#DFPH02

                    Comment

                    • chris_j_hunter
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 1713

                      #11
                      >X10 communication is so unreliable ...

                      did you see :



                      and especially this :



                      ??
                      Our self-build - going further with HA...

                      Comment

                      • neilhooper
                        Automated Home Guru
                        • Oct 2008
                        • 124

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Karam View Post
                        Your question is a bit unclear to me, but if you mean remote control input into the IDRATEK system then you can just use some off the shelf IR handset; either a very basic one or perhaps one of those with an LCD display for example. You can then train a conveniently located IDRANet IR receiver or transceiver module with codes from the handset. If you mean remote control of appliances via the system, eg. if curtains can be controlled by IR, then you could probably train an IDRANet IR transmitter with the curtain controller codes and then get the system to issue these as you see fit.

                        As for the issue of buttons/looks/functionality, for some locations might it be worthwhile considering the new DFP module?http://www.idratek.com/HWSensor.htm#DFPH02
                        Hi Karam,

                        My blinds have been modified and incorporate a tiny DC motor and some miniature limit switches. The motor is controlled via a double pole change over relay that reverses the current when either on or off so blinds open or close and keep going until the limit switch is tripped. Basic, but it's unobtrusive, and it works.

                        At the moment when I press #13 'on' on my X10 remote the blinds close, when I press #13 'off' the blinds open. Again simple, but 'er indoors understands it and therefor uses it.

                        I would like to do the same with Idratek. I understand that the relays can be turned on and off easily but I don't understand how the remote bit can be implemented.

                        I would also like to control specific lights by remote, on, off, dim, bright etc.

                        The DFPH02 for me, isn't 'up my street' --- sorry.

                        Regards,

                        Neil

                        Comment

                        • pdwarriner
                          Automated Home Jr Member
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 25

                          #13
                          Neil,

                          If it is those specific stylre of buttons you like, Apem Components also do an extensive range with dot and ring illumination and tactile feel.

                          Not sure on price, but I have dealt with a Steve Blackwell at Apem and got good service and some samples.

                          Peter.

                          Comment

                          • chris_j_hunter
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Dec 2007
                            • 1713

                            #14
                            >iPhone / iPod Touch ... little extravagant ...

                            yep, but makes sense if they are around already ... especially since then people would tend to have them on them most of the time ...
                            Our self-build - going further with HA...

                            Comment

                            • neilhooper
                              Automated Home Guru
                              • Oct 2008
                              • 124

                              #15
                              I bought a load of X10 stuff in 2004. We had recently moved into this house and was a bit unsure about leaving it for 2 weeks to go on holiday. I set it all up and had a convincing looking lived in effect going on, so convincing that someone who didn't know we were away came to try and see us five times while we were away, as they said we were sure someone was in as the blinds were closed at night and open in the day, we could hear the telly and lights were going on and off. So my security system worked, how pleased was I. Over a period of a couple of years things started to fail, units that used to switch didn't anymore, the TM13 gave up so I bought I new one, the PC interface started blowing it's fuse on a regular basis, various modules gave up responding. Like many others I almost gave up but not being a quitter I persevered, filters added here and there, moved the TM13 to just about every socket in the house but never getting all units to respond, even had a lamp module in one side of a double socket and the TM13 in the other and it still didn't work, moved the unit to another socket it worked, strange that was the socket it didn't work in earlier, hair got pulled out things nearly got thrown against walls, but, I now have a greatly reduced system that 'works'

                              It's a pity that every time a bulb blows I've got to replace a fuse, and that there's no feedback that something has actually happened and the totally unpredictable delay !!!

                              I know there are bits and pieces that I can buy to diagnose and help set up the system but to be honest I'd rather put the money towards my shiny new Idratek system (I'm sure Karam would like that as well) and I'm sure it's going to be much more reliable.

                              Comment

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