X10 all house filter

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  • jaffab
    Automated Home Sr Member
    • Dec 2008
    • 94

    X10 all house filter

    All,

    I am thinking about purchasing a TF678 all house filter (http://www.uk-automation.co.uk/whole...er-p-1003.html) becuase several people on the discussion have in the past, said that it sports out a lot of X10 singal problems. I think external noise may be the cause of some signals from my Sc9000 not being received.

    Can anybody tell me, does this really make much of a difference, and are they hard to fit. I assume its a case of:

    1) Turning off the power at the master (external) feed
    2) Removing the supply feed from the main internal fuse box and connecting the feed to this box instead
    3) Running a feed from the TF678 to the master fuse box

    The UK home automation talks more about using the filter to stop x10 signals going out - but I am more interested (for obvious reasons) in using it to cut down missed signals inside the property.

    Please advise
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    My life is Home Automation, and my PS3 clan friends at http://www.ps3crowd.com
  • jaffab
    Automated Home Sr Member
    • Dec 2008
    • 94

    #2
    Whilst I wait for a reply, would it be a better idea to test for noisy devices using the offer of the loan XPTT device from lets automate...



    As the messages from the SC9000 sometimes get through (and do most of the time) and sometimes dont get through, is the best course of action to look for noisy devices in the house, or to look for noise coming from outside (hense the question on the whole house filter).

    Any suggestions?
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    My life is Home Automation, and my PS3 clan friends at http://www.ps3crowd.com

    Comment

    • toscal
      Moderator
      • Oct 2005
      • 2061

      #3
      I would always fit an X10 whole house filter. As this can solve many of the problems.
      And also look for noisy devices inside.
      IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
      Renovation Spain Blog

      Comment

      • nbr_uk
        Automated Home Jr Member
        • Jul 2009
        • 14

        #4
        The rental test kit sounds like a good plan. I've just started my x10 project and found that my Samsung LCD tv blocks the x10 signals so intend tobuy a filter from Lets Automate. Curiously enough I have a smaller version of the same tv upstairs and it doesn't seem to have the same effect (touch wood).

        Comment

        • jaffab
          Automated Home Sr Member
          • Dec 2008
          • 94

          #5
          Originally posted by toscal View Post
          I would always fit an X10 whole house filter. As this can solve many of the problems.
          And also look for noisy devices inside.
          Ok, so decided to take the plunge with the all house filter this weekend and got... nowhere. The cables from the external box to my fuse box are too tight, and run between the walls, so I cant stretch/change them to fit the filter.

          So I guess (please advise) that I need a pro to come in from the electricity company and run new cables?!? If so, who do I call - is it my electricity supplier (EDF)? If not, who? And how much is it going to cost (roughly)?
          __________________________________________________ _______________________
          My life is Home Automation, and my PS3 clan friends at http://www.ps3crowd.com

          Comment

          • toscal
            Moderator
            • Oct 2005
            • 2061

            #6
            Here in Spain we fit the filter after the main Switch and before the differential. So if this is the case with you. Then a good electrician would do, you could try EDF as they may be able to recommend someone locally. As to cost I haven't a clue for the UK.
            IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
            Renovation Spain Blog

            Comment

            • jaffab
              Automated Home Sr Member
              • Dec 2008
              • 94

              #7
              Originally posted by toscal View Post
              Here in Spain we fit the filter after the main Switch and before the differential. So if this is the case with you. Then a good electrician would do, you could try EDF as they may be able to recommend someone locally. As to cost I haven't a clue for the UK.

              Thanks. I would have had a go myself, except that in the main external electric box, the main units (on/off switch, and earth) are sealed units - so no way to disconnect the mains leads. Hence why I thought EDF would need to get involved.
              __________________________________________________ _______________________
              My life is Home Automation, and my PS3 clan friends at http://www.ps3crowd.com

              Comment

              • jaffab
                Automated Home Sr Member
                • Dec 2008
                • 94

                #8
                Originally posted by jaffab View Post
                Thanks. I would have had a go myself, except that in the main external electric box, the main units (on/off switch, and earth) are sealed units - so no way to disconnect the mains leads. Hence why I thought EDF would need to get involved.

                Well, the electric man has been in, and the filter is fitted, and - I am still having problems. I switched off all applicences (fridges, freezers, lights, TVs, radios), everything except the computer and the x10 receiver, and did some tests - and still having problems. My tests and conclusions are....

                1) Computer sending x10 to devices - never a problem
                2) Sc9000 turning all lights on and all lights off (via the keychain control) - activates the lights and the computer picks up the x10 signal - no problem
                3) remote sensors (PIR's) are flashing to say sending signals - so they appear to be working
                4) However, no x10 signal being received by computer from PIR actions. So.....

                either

                a) The radio signal from the PIRs is not being received by the sc9000 or
                b) the sc9000 is not transforming these into x10 signals

                so my next steps are:

                1) Reset the PIRs and re-link them to the sc9000 and restest

                otherwise, I suspect that there must be something wrong with the sc9000 unit.

                any comments/suggestions?
                __________________________________________________ _______________________
                My life is Home Automation, and my PS3 clan friends at http://www.ps3crowd.com

                Comment

                • toscal
                  Moderator
                  • Oct 2005
                  • 2061

                  #9
                  What PIRs are you using. Security ones (MS18E/MS90E) or the MS13E2 Hawk eye. If its the security ones have you made sure the alarm has registered them. If it has then try setting of the alarm by triggering the PIR. Also if its one of the security type sensors then to get it to trigger an x10 command it needs to be assigned to a zone from 27 to 32 and the house code if panel is on A is B and the unit number is from 7 to 12. So if the panel is on B and the sensor is assigned to zone 28 then the X10 address for that sensor will be C8.

                  If its the Hawk eye type then try setting it to a different house code and unit code. But make sure that the house and unit code does not interfere with ones used in the panel. if the panel is set to A then they are A1,A2, B4,B5, B7 to B12 (see above for usage of these codes) and B13 to B16 (these are used for the digimax thermostat) If the panel is set to B then it would be B1, B2, C4 etc.
                  IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                  Renovation Spain Blog

                  Comment

                  • jaffab
                    Automated Home Sr Member
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 94

                    #10
                    Originally posted by toscal View Post
                    What PIRs are you using.

                    If its the Hawk eye type then try setting it to a different house code and unit code. But make sure that the house and unit code does not interfere with ones used in the panel. if the panel is set to A then they are A1,A2, B4,B5, B7 to B12 (see above for usage of these codes) and B13 to B16 (these are used for the digimax thermostat) If the panel is set to B then it would be B1, B2, C4 etc.
                    Its the Movement/light sensors (MS13E). The three units with problems and the associated codes used are:

                    Lounge sensor - A3 movement, A4 light
                    Garage sensor - a5 movement, A6 light
                    Toilet sensor - A12 movement, a13 light

                    the house code is A (remember I have an all house filter so not worried about other X10 on the same house code, so main lights are A1 and A2 (as far as the Sc9000 is concerned for alarm lights)), so I could change the house/unit code on one of the units to B14 and B15 on a sample unit and will try it.
                    __________________________________________________ _______________________
                    My life is Home Automation, and my PS3 clan friends at http://www.ps3crowd.com

                    Comment

                    • toscal
                      Moderator
                      • Oct 2005
                      • 2061

                      #11
                      Have you tried manually triggering the Hawk eyes. Just lift the battery lid off and use the buttons inside. If this doesn't work then try moving it closer to the panel. Also try turning the light on directly from the panel.
                      Originally posted by jaffab View Post
                      the house code is A (remember I have an all house filter so not worried about other X10 on the same house code, so main lights are A1 and A2 (as far as the Sc9000 is concerned for alarm lights)), so I could change the house/unit code on one of the units to B14 and B15 on a sample unit and will try it.
                      What I meant was that the alarm panel as I explained uses certain X10 codes for other things, not just A1 and A2. But the codes you are using should be OK.
                      Last edited by toscal; 11 August 2009, 04:12 PM.
                      IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                      Renovation Spain Blog

                      Comment

                      • jaffab
                        Automated Home Sr Member
                        • Dec 2008
                        • 94

                        #12
                        Originally posted by toscal View Post
                        Have you tried manually triggering the Hawk eyes. Just lift the battery lid off and use the buttons inside. If this doesn't work then try moving it closer to the panel. Also try turning the light on directly from the panel.

                        What I meant was that the alarm panel as I explained uses certain X10 codes for other things, not just A1 and A2. But the codes you are using should be OK.
                        Yep, manual trigging done (via movement and light), with one of the sensors moved to within 10 feet of the Sc9000 - some get through and trigger the X10 signals, some (the majority) dont. I have emailed Martech (or whatever they are called) with the same information - no response as yet. If I dont hear anything back in a week, I will get it replaced via UK Automation as faulty.

                        *Updated*

                        Tonight, changeed a device to a "C" house code, stood 1 foot from the SC9000 and played the 'putting the MS13 sensor in and out of a bag' game - no difference, not a single X10 code received. As the sc9000 is sending x10 out (for B1 alarm set status, A1 & a2 lights on and off codes), it looks to me that the Radio receiver is dodgy in the unit.
                        Last edited by jaffab; 11 August 2009, 08:28 PM. Reason: Updated
                        __________________________________________________ _______________________
                        My life is Home Automation, and my PS3 clan friends at http://www.ps3crowd.com

                        Comment

                        • toscal
                          Moderator
                          • Oct 2005
                          • 2061

                          #13
                          If you open the MS13E you will find 2 switches, the same ones that are used to program the unit. Have you tried switching the light on and off with these. As the House button will switch the light on and the Unit button will switch the light off.
                          Also what mode do you have it in. From memory I think you can have it so the sensor only works at night or all the time. Sometimes I have found that if its on night only any stray light can stop it from working. Or if you have more than one close to each other, then when one is triggered the other won't because it now thinks its daytime.
                          Height is quite important with them and how they are triggered. Its always better to place them so you walk across the beam rather than into the beam.
                          IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                          Renovation Spain Blog

                          Comment

                          • jaffab
                            Automated Home Sr Member
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 94

                            #14
                            Originally posted by toscal View Post
                            If you open the MS13E you will find 2 switches, the same ones that are used to program the unit. Have you tried switching the light on and off with these. As the House button will switch the light on and the Unit button will switch the light off.
                            Also what mode do you have it in. From memory I think you can have it so the sensor only works at night or all the time. Sometimes I have found that if its on night only any stray light can stop it from working. Or if you have more than one close to each other, then when one is triggered the other won't because it now thinks its daytime.
                            Height is quite important with them and how they are triggered. Its always better to place them so you walk across the beam rather than into the beam.
                            Yep, tried the manual switching. Its set to sensor working both night and day. Tried in and out of dark bag (for light testing) and in front and behind it for movement testing - it was on a chair, 2 foot from the SC9000. Its not the sensors - they were flashing to say signal being sent.
                            __________________________________________________ _______________________
                            My life is Home Automation, and my PS3 clan friends at http://www.ps3crowd.com

                            Comment

                            • toscal
                              Moderator
                              • Oct 2005
                              • 2061

                              #15
                              The range on the ms13s is normally very good.
                              And I guess if the PC isn't picking up the x10 signals sent via the sensors, Then it looks like the SC9000.
                              Good luck.
                              IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                              Renovation Spain Blog

                              Comment

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