Security lighting install with a Powermax+

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  • GavinWallace
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • Jul 2009
    • 10

    Security lighting install with a Powermax+

    Hi Guys,

    Very new to this forum so excuse the complete lack of knowledge!

    I've bought a Visonic Powermax+ system and installed it relatively easily (well, the basic functions without the phone line as yet...). I now need to get some kind of security lighting system installed in our fairly large back garden. There is no lighting there just now and is just a perfect place for some burglar to lurk.

    What I would like is for 3 floodlights to be strategically placed around the garden which I can wire in manually myself but what I don't want is for the silly PIR's they come with to constantly activate due to the smallest of birds on the ground hence I was only going to buy the non PIR floodlights and have some other way of triggering them.

    There are 3 access points to the garden, round the side, in from the back and in from a further side.

    What I would dearly like is for 3 (not too sensitive) PIR's to be strategically placed around the access points so when either are activated this in turn activates the floodlights and perhaps gives a small chime on the Powermax module to let us know somewhere has been breached.

    I don't know if this is simple for you guys to help me with so any help you can give me would be really appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,

    Gavin

    PS - I'd also later like to install a camera('s) that activates when one of the PIR's is triggered... possible through the powermax?
  • toscal
    Moderator
    • Oct 2005
    • 2061

    #2
    everything is possible but it may not be cheap. For the lights use an X10 interface the XM10 I think is the one you need for the powermax. and then use x10 appliance modules to switch the lights on and off. You may want to get the pc software and interface as its much easier to set the X10 stuff from the pc rather than the LCD screen.
    The cameras can either be IP ones or Visonic's expensive wired ones. But you will need the powerlink interface and a network connection.
    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
    Renovation Spain Blog

    Comment

    • GavinWallace
      Automated Home Jr Member
      • Jul 2009
      • 10

      #3
      Toscal,

      Thanks for taking the time to reply, you seem to be in the know about these things.

      Where is the best place to buy an XM10? I gather this just plugs into the powermax main unit somehow and from there I can activate the appliances?

      What can I use for outdoor PIRs? Will the normal ones supplied with the indoor be sufficient?

      Do you think this is the best way to do this setup? I am not bothered about the cameras linking to the powermax really as the lights will come on I can then switch on an screen to view things. What is an IP camera?

      We are trying to keep wiring to an absolute minimum (wireless if possible) as it's thick stone walls we have and anything with wires is a huge nightmare!

      Let me know if you can help and if you can advise using a different system to do this, please tell me!

      Thanks in advance once again!

      Gavin

      Comment

      • GavinWallace
        Automated Home Jr Member
        • Jul 2009
        • 10

        #4
        Anyone able to help me in my last message?

        Comment

        • toscal
          Moderator
          • Oct 2005
          • 2061

          #5
          The way we do the outdoor PIRs here in Spain, is to use a wired outdoor rated PIR and a Visonic door sensor. Inside the door sensor are 2 terminals you link the PIR relay to these terminals, set the dip switch inside the door sensor to use these terminals. Wire up a 12v supply for the PIR and that's it.
          A client of mine had a break in recently. And we beefed up his security system. We installed an outdoor beam barrier system. The barrier is about 1.5m high and has 4 beams and you need to break 2 of them to trigger the alarm. The barrier uses a lithium battery for each post and will last up to 4 years. The relay output was connected to a door sensor. We also fitted an extra siren, this was a totally wireless bell box. It has a solar panel to charge the internal battery. If there was no solar panel the battery will last 28 days. There is a small wireless transmitter that is connected to the bell output of the Powermax+ panel. This also takes its power from the panel. So if you have a big property you may want to fit another bell box.
          On the x10 interface, depending on the modules you use you will need to set the wire link to either 2way(modules capable of reporting their status) or 1way.
          IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
          Renovation Spain Blog

          Comment

          • GavinWallace
            Automated Home Jr Member
            • Jul 2009
            • 10

            #6
            Toscal,

            Thanks once again for your reply and it makes good sense however, which sytem did you supply for your client with the beam bars? This is what I need as I am sure I could also link this in with X10 to turn on a light somewhere.

            Do you have a cost for these barrier systems?

            Thanks in advance,

            Gavin

            Comment

            • GavinWallace
              Automated Home Jr Member
              • Jul 2009
              • 10

              #7
              Toscal,

              Thanks once again for your reply and it makes good sense however, which sytem did you supply for your client with the beam bars? This is what I need as I am sure I could also link this in with X10 to turn on a light somewhere.

              Do you have a cost for these barrier systems?

              Thanks in advance,

              Gavin

              Comment

              • toscal
                Moderator
                • Oct 2005
                • 2061

                #8
                The client has a powermax pro system.
                It is also possible to do the same with the Infinte Prime system as well by using an INF-UTX which is specially designed for connecting wired sensors to or it.
                The beam barrier system isn't cheap. Just the barriers cost about 270 euros. But then it is completely self contained so no need to run extra cables apart from the 2 wires to the wireless sensor.
                Visonic do a special outdoor detector which has 8 small pir detectors built into it to eliminate false alarms. It also has the option to only work during night time.
                but this is also not cheap its over 300 euros. Mind you its probably cheaper in the UK.
                IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                Renovation Spain Blog

                Comment

                • raven
                  Automated Home Jr Member
                  • Dec 2007
                  • 14

                  #9
                  Hey just read this thread and I have a very similar setup.

                  I have powermax+ with X10 interface although I mainly use PLCBus with an X10/PLCBUS repeater.
                  An iqeye camera
                  An outside infrared sensor which gives a chime.
                  The software also monitors the solar heating system sending details of all the inputs to my website.
                  The camera uses pysoft Active Webcam software to monitor movement.

                  The powermax+ is linked to an old fashion indoor (yes indoor) PIR silicon sealed to be used outside (cost about £3). I fitted some card inside to narrow the view and then mounted next to the gate. The powermax+ allows two hardwired sensors and I’ve linked the sensor to this. If any one climbs over the gate it goes off but no fox or cat sets it off so it never (well once in three years) false alarms. No beams required.

                  Using out door alarms linked to chimes is so much better than indoor alarms that most people never set when you are in the house. In the day the chime goes off when we walk past it but as it's just a chime we ignore it. The powermax+ offers remote controllers that produce the chime so we have one next to our bed.

                  For two years we had no alarms, then it went off at 3.00am and we sat up in bed petrified. I opened the window and could here something outside. Three lads had climbed over the gate. When I shouted out the window (I couldn;t see them) they climbed back over the gate giving me abuse as they ran away. I also had them on camera when the came onto my drive as the security light goes off so the camera can pick them up. It also caught them running away.

                  The lesson is I would much rather the chime warns me of intruders that are outside than setting the alarm off when they're inside. Nothing could be worse than the alarm going off when you think some ones in the house. The noise of the sirens means you can’t hear anything so what do you do. Ok so the siren has hopefully scared them off but can you be sure?

                  Anyway you can use a normal security camera linked to software that has movement detection. When the security light goes on the camera will come on automatically so no direct connection is needed.

                  You can do a lot really cheaply. The camera I used was expensive, really expensive, but there are many cheaper network cameras, the only problem being how it works in low light. The iqeye is programmable so I can set the exposure time programmatically to make sure all picture are rock solid (including moving cars) when there is enough light (i.e. daylight) . I also have a special setting so that when the floodlight comes on the exposure is set correctly immediately to give me a decent picture without too much blurring.

                  Comment

                  • GavinWallace
                    Automated Home Jr Member
                    • Jul 2009
                    • 10

                    #10
                    Raven/Toscal,

                    Thank you both for very good feedback on this. I have a few questions if you'd both like to Help.

                    Raven, your's is identical to what I'd like to set up however wiring is going to be a definite no no in our house as the walls are extremely thick and any wiring is not going to work. Toscal, could I use what Raven has described with the PIR but wire it to the door sensor, or alternatively, take a visonic wireless indoor sensor and make it outdoor proof as raven said with silicon or some waterproofed sealing? This would make it very easy to communicate with the powermax+ on a wireless basis.

                    The next thing is.. X10. I am a complete novice on this side.

                    How do I get the chime to operate? I know that I can get the chime that comes with the visonic to work with a door contact sensor but will this work with the PIR?

                    If not, what do I need to get with regards X10 to make this function?
                    XM10?
                    Then what?

                    Also, if I wanted to pop on an outside light that was wired to an X10 switch, could this be activated along with the chime?

                    Sorry guys for all the questions but
                    A: I'm a novice
                    B: I don't know where the hell to buy this stuff without getting ripped off.

                    Any help is much appreciated!

                    Gavin

                    Comment

                    • raven
                      Automated Home Jr Member
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 14

                      #11
                      Ok, I have used a Visonic PIR sensor (just a normal indoor wireless one) placed in a water proof tube with a small whole in it nailed to a tree. A waterproof bird box would be a good choice. The point is you have to reduce the field of vision to a tunnel. You then need to make sure an object prevents it from seeing too far. I have an Iron gate with a line of conifers opposite. Any one climbing the gate will go straight through the field of view of the PIR. Cats won’t climb the gate as they can go through it as do foxes. The trees face is away from the sun so no false alarms. Anyway chimes in the day don't bother me; it's late at night to the early hours that are important. The zone is chime only so it never sets the alarm off. Just use trial and error to get the setup right. The main problem with the visonic PIR is that they seem to switch themselves off after a number of alarms presumably to save power. A real pain when testing the system. The PIR was outside all through the winter without issue. A check inside shows no sign of damp damage. Obviously there is a chance indoor PIRs could get wrecked but like I say my wired PIR has been outside for 4 years and is as good as new. At £3 I'll replace it if it goes. I brought the Visonic one it after about 9 months because I didn't really need it. One was enough.

                      No X10 is required for chiming unless you need a remote chime. Chime will work on any zone regardless of how it is triggered so PIR is fine. The problem with chime is will you hear it at night. In my case I bought the visonic two way remote keypad because it allows me to control the alarm from my bed and receives the chime from the base unit. This cost £88 pounds but it does offer full remote control.

                      Why do you want a chime to go off if you put the light on?


                      You can use X10 but you need the X10 controller. You will then need three X10 appliance switches (one for each flood light. Won't one be enough?) and if you can't use the built-in chime you could use the X10 dog bark. You can then program the unit to send an X10 command to switch on the lights. Personally I wouldn't bother with X10 controlling the flood lights because it sometimes fails so it might not turn the lights off. 1500W left on all night might cost a bit. I use normal PIR that comes with the lights. Ok this goes off a bit more but does that matter. The PIR for intruders is separate and the two systems are independent. X10 could be used but it would be better with a bespoke application to do clever things. I use my Java app so I can say things like. If the lights have been on for 10 minutes between 10pm and 7.00am say then turn them off. You can by clever apps but I don’t use them so can’t comment.

                      Best of luck.

                      Comment

                      • GavinWallace
                        Automated Home Jr Member
                        • Jul 2009
                        • 10

                        #12
                        Thank you sir, most helpful.

                        Trouble is with our house is that there are various bits to the house round the back.

                        There are two entrances from the front of the house leading to the back garden either side of the house, both pathways then this path is then hugged to the back of the house where there is like a zigzag at the back of the house in the way it is shaped. This would not be a problem for one PIR carefully positioned in the garden HOWEVER, the garden is elevated so the path round the back of the house is in like a trench so someone coud be missed quite easily.

                        I will need to put two PIR's at the back of the house to guard both areas. Someone can also jump the fence in the garden at the back and come in through that way. The two that I would situate on the path would cover me for anyone coming in at the back towards the house however, peace of mind says if anyone is in my garden I would like to be altered at an early point so I think 3 would be perfect. The PIR's are not that expensive and I would get the pet tolerant ones so hopefully reducing the false alarms.

                        The reason I want the X10 is this:

                        When any of the 3 PIR's are triggered I would like for a security light to be triggered, only one. I would also like to have the control of switching it on remotely should I need to. I have the remote key pad and also two key fobs which have an button that can be linked to activate 1 appliance.

                        What do I have to buy to become X10 compliant? Is it an XM10? I am only going to rig this security light to a normal 3 pin UK plug in the greenhouse. Would this be all I need to buy?

                        Is this simple to program?

                        Once again, thanks for your time, I will get there in the end!

                        Gavin

                        Comment

                        • raven
                          Automated Home Jr Member
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 14

                          #13
                          As Toscal mentioned you need this http://www.letsautomate.com/10215.cf...DE02B6ADF4840A to allow you visonic to talk x10.

                          Then you need some switches. Try these http://x10-hk.com/store/product_info...products_id=49

                          Then you may may be able to control the devices using the alarm else try this



                          There is a lot of choice for remote controls but here is an example



                          I just picked suppliers I used. Feel free to choice any supplier you prefer.

                          Then you need to program you visonic controller to send X10 command when zones are triggered. This is the fun bit as the manual in this are seems to have lost the plot. It talks about some other types of zones but gives no indication as to what these are. Any I got there in the end.

                          Do it in stages. Get the chimes working first. Buy flood lights with infra red sensors an you can still use x10 to control them. Then buy x10 sensor and so on.

                          Best of luck

                          Comment

                          • toscal
                            Moderator
                            • Oct 2005
                            • 2061

                            #14
                            For using the X10 on the powermax pro you are better off getting the pc software and serial interface. It makes programming much easier. Plus you can program a lot of the other things too via the interface. Much easier than looking at a tiny LCD screen.
                            IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                            Renovation Spain Blog

                            Comment

                            • GavinWallace
                              Automated Home Jr Member
                              • Jul 2009
                              • 10

                              #15
                              Raven/Toscal,

                              I cannot seem to be able to configure the PIR that I'm using to just give off the chime sound when the alarm is ARMED. I have configured it using Sensor Type 9 "Non Alarm" so that it chimes when not armed but when it is armed it will not chime.

                              Can any of you guys tell me how to program the sensor correctly?

                              Also, just to let you know, I am trying this out just inside just now but am planning to make this go outdoors shortly.

                              Raven, you said you used a wireless Visonic PIR initially. Did you put this in a waterproof sleeve? I am just planning to silicon seal up the joining area and put it outside. I don't think it should leak anywhere unless you can advise otherwise?

                              Any thoughts please let me know.

                              Cheers,

                              Gavin

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