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Thread: Heating Using Idratek

  1. #1
    Automated Home Jr Member
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    Default Heating Using Idratek

    Hi Everyone,

    I'm fairly new to using the idratek components and am in the process of totally rewiring and renovating each room in my house. Not easy considering I only have weekends to work on the house.

    The plan is to use idratek components for heating, lighting, blind control and security.

    At the moment I am looking at heating and noticed that the thermostatic valves on my radiators are actually on the outgoing pipe feed.

    Since I am planning on using the actuator valves sold on the idratek site and controlled via the temp sensor in the local DFP panel to that room.

    I was wondering whether the actuator needs to be on the return pipe feed side or the out going pipe feed?

    Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Automated Home Guru jpdw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lats View Post
    I was wondering whether the actuator needs to be on the return pipe feed side or the out going pipe feed?
    I'm sure a purist (or someone that fits central heating for a living) would argue something about convection of the heat, but I'd have thought you'd be OK. The valve actuator just "turns on" and "off" the flow through the rad. I'd assume it doesn't really matter which end cuts of the flow, surely the same affect will be had (value to off = flow stops, hot water doesn't enter the rad etc).

    Probably more importantly would be to check the valve body (ie the wet bit that Idratek dont supply) as these are often, but not always, designed to be 1-way. I assume this has to do with the way the valve is gated. If you're putting the actuators on an existing system then "of course" the bodies will already be the right way around (or bidirectional).

    I'm sure someone that does this for a living will be along with a definitive answer, but meantime hope this helps.
    Jon

  3. #3
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    Hi Lats,

    I am doing exactly the same as you... even down to the 'only having weekends'... Having just replaced 4 rads in part of the downstairs, the advice from my plumber was exactly as jpdw stated- fully depends upon the valve body you intend to fit the actuator on - I got Honeywell VT120 TRV/lockshield kits (10 each) which are fully compatible with the Idratek RVA-001 Sauter actuators - they are also Bi-directional - apparently most are these days... older one way valves were prone to flutter (ie. not close properly) if fitted incorrectly due to turbulent flow in the shoulder of the curve and the spring/damping rates.
    I requested and followed Karam's advice and have used a single Cat5e daisy chained to all four actuators, with a pair for each actuator - hopefully to be connected to a QRI-002 using a 24vDC PSU, when I get that far!

    ChadJo

  4. #4
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    Thanks guys for your help.

    Chadjo,

    Where did you buy the Honeywell VT120 valves from and how could you tell they were compatible with the with RVA001 valves?

    Also, can you connect the honeywell valves to your heating and then when needed connect the sauter valves without having to drain the entire central heating system? or would it be best to connect the sauter valves and set them to normally open (losing the temporary benefit of the thermostatic valve) and then connect to the QRI-002 when ready?

  5. #5
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    They were from my local Plumber's merchants in Cardiff (BGS Industrial Ltd) - they are what my plumber recommended, and I am sure you can get them everywhere - model no is Honeywell VTL120 (Valve Thermostatic Lockshield ? ) Radplan, which uses the VT117E TRV - I paid 10+VAT.

    Just Googled them and found them online for 9.95 inc VAT... Screwfix also have them.

    I do not know they fit as I have not bought an RVA-001 yet... just assuming that as they have the correct size locking ring thread (M30x1.5) - see both the Sauter Spec sheet linked on the Idratek RVA-001 page and they (VT117E) are listed on the RVA-001 page as being compatible.

    Go for the first option - fit them as normal - the plunger operated valve is separate to the Thermostatic head - which simply screws on - thus you do not need to drain to change from mechanical to electrically actuated - however, you obviously lose the mechanical ability if you remove it and replace with the RVA-001 and should have your Idratek temp sensing capability ready before you do this!

    I have also found another very similar valve made by Caleffi and sold in the UK by Altecnic Ltd - the model no is the CA-656104 - this has the same M30x1.5 fitting ring - the reason I mention this is that the technical .pdf gives a very good explanation of how they work. Would be interesting to see a price comparison.... I am going to need 19...! Bulk buy anyone?

    Chad

  6. #6
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    Thanks Chad.

    I will be ordering a couple of these and then use the PSU002 and QRI modules when I am ready to fully automate all my rads.

  7. #7
    Automated Home Guru jpdw's Avatar
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    Quick word of caution on matching valves with actuators: I read somewhere that the diameter of the thread is only part of the challenge. The other part is the plunger throw - is how far the actuator pin needs to go and the difference between 'open' and 'closed'.

    I never really figured out what to look for on the spec sheets, because I was lucky and found my one-and-only Drayton TRV4 valve seemed to work a treat with the Sauter actuator from Idratek. I took a chance and based on that purchased the TRV4 throughout. Not the cheapest but I didn't plan to use the actuators for a while so wanted a nicer looking TRV in the meantime. Plus it means I have a nicer looking TRV to put back when we sell in a few years time. (unless HA has become the norm by then)

    My point is to see if you can test one of your chosen bodies with the actuator somehow first before you buy & fit a whole house load then later find.... .....
    Jon

  8. #8
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    Jon,

    You are correct - the Caleffi .pdf spec sheet in my previous post shows why - some plunger tails are shorter/longer than others - hence they make a few different specs of the same actuator. Sauter actually do the same according to their spec sheet, however I have not been able to access the original spec sheet on their website. The differences seem to be coped with by spacer rings... Anyone got any first-hand experience of coping with this issue?

    Chad

  9. #9
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    I completed my downstairs heating just before christmas,

    I have replaced all my valves (19 in total) with Drayton Rt111. These seem to work fine with the sauter actuator. So far i have 4 rooms & 5 radiators Downstairs running and it seems to be working very well.

    I purchased another actuator by Emmeti from here there are 20inc vat. I have tried it in one room and it works fine on the RT111 with a similar reaction time to the sauter. In the spec it says its a direct replacement for the Caleffi 656104

    My next plan is to do the main bedrooms and hallway upstairs which means i need 7 more actuators and a QRI. The Emmeti would save me quite a bit on cost.

    Simon
    Last edited by simcom; 7th January 2010 at 12:19 AM.

  10. #10
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    Simon,

    What did you use to power the actuators or did you use the 24v din rail PSU002?

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