Sending internet around the Aerial circuit

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  • michaeldon
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • Jul 2009
    • 23

    Sending internet around the Aerial circuit

    Hi All

    I run some vacation rentals out of buildings with many apartments in them and I am trying to find a cost effective way of getting internet into all apartments without recabling the whole building. Wifi works ok but we cannot repeat the signal effectively to a single point meaning we need to use a few ADSL lines. I would rather just use one ADSL line as they are costly at the location of the building.

    I had the idea of using cable modems and sending the signal through the aerial circuit. The problem is cable modems seem to need something very pricey at the far end of the circuit called a cable modem termination system.

    Or maybe I am wrong and you can run cable modems end to end and put several on one line in different frequency channels?

    I also thought of passing internet through the mains circuit, but apparently the electricity meter on each flat will block that out, so that is a no-no.

    Any info/ideas much appreciated
    Last edited by michaeldon; 21 January 2010, 11:33 AM.
  • wywywywy
    Automated Home Sr Member
    • Dec 2005
    • 86

    #2
    This is what you need I think.

    Comment

    • michaeldon
      Automated Home Jr Member
      • Jul 2009
      • 23

      #3
      Wow, so you can put multiple units one circuit? I would need to supply 9 or 10 apartments with internet

      Comment

      • toscal
        Moderator
        • Oct 2005
        • 2061

        #4
        There is a way to do this using wifi. So at each aerial point you now have a small wifi aerial and aerial socket. It all depends on how the aerial cable is connected to each apartment. I think thiscould provide a neat and quick solution.
        IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
        Renovation Spain Blog

        Comment

        • michaeldon
          Automated Home Jr Member
          • Jul 2009
          • 23

          #5
          Tell me more

          The netgear looks as if it's only point to point so it won't solve my problem of many outlets.

          But I found this which does do multipoint:

          Actiontec’s Gateways and Extenders incorporate the most advanced WiFi 7 technology, including tri-band 4x4x4 with 10Gbps WAN/LAN throughput on our flagship WiFi 7 gateway. We’ve optimized antenna placement on three dimensions to deliver a robust signal between floors and to the far corners of the home.


          Looking for more options.

          Comment

          • toscal
            Moderator
            • Oct 2005
            • 2061

            #6
            This is the link you need.
            IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
            Renovation Spain Blog

            Comment

            • michaeldon
              Automated Home Jr Member
              • Jul 2009
              • 23

              #7
              That's great Toscal. Thanks so much

              Comment

              • wywywywy
                Automated Home Sr Member
                • Dec 2005
                • 86

                #8
                That's just a glorified diplexer isn't it? I might be wrong but I don't think an RG59 coax cable is supposed to be able to carry 2.4GHz signals?

                Comment

                • michaeldon
                  Automated Home Jr Member
                  • Jul 2009
                  • 23

                  #9
                  You can see it does point to multipoint so there is some routing function in there. Several units talking over one path.

                  By the way Toscal, has anyone ever tried this? I see the web page is old and there is nobody selling this thing on google shopping.

                  Comment

                  • toscal
                    Moderator
                    • Oct 2005
                    • 2061

                    #10
                    The only place I know is http://www.wifisafe.com/categoria-2/...-aphelion.html
                    something else I saw is by 4ipnet http://www.4ipnet.com/en/products_de...hp?name=EAP700
                    Last edited by toscal; 23 January 2010, 12:55 PM.
                    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                    Renovation Spain Blog

                    Comment

                    • jpdw
                      Automated Home Guru
                      • Oct 2007
                      • 169

                      #11
                      Hi..

                      What's the issue you're having with using conventional WiFi? You mention the expense of running cables but also mention needing to run multiple ADSL lines -- which themselves would require cables!

                      If you have multiple appartments in a single building then I would guess part of your problem is that a single cell of wireless coverage wont work and that you need several access points to give building-wide coverage. If you're describing using multiple wireless DSL routers then this explains why you mention needing lots of ADSL lines, but honestly, a single DSL line shared across multiple APs would problem give enough bandwidth (unless your renters are all online gamers).

                      So I'd think a DSL router and several 802.11 access points would be a usable solution. Yes, you'd need to run some cable back between the APs and the DSL router, but you could position the APs in the corridor which would make the cabling dead easy. [ yes, you can get wireless repeaters but the moment you enable this the effective bandwidth halves and you increase latency, hence I recommend cable to the APs ]

                      Wifi is great and can work very well in multi-tenented locations, but so often it gets a bad rep because of bad implementations by people or because of the poor quality very cheap equipment. [ I could start listing hospitals or schools which are stuffed full of cisco APs all on the same channel which will never work (there are only 2 companies in the world that can make this work, but cisco isn't one of them !)]


                      jon
                      Jon

                      Comment

                      • michaeldon
                        Automated Home Jr Member
                        • Jul 2009
                        • 23

                        #12
                        Hi Jpdw

                        There are several issues. Thick walls and problems with wifi repeaters not working well (hence the extra ADSL lines). Note also wifi in the hallway won't serve the whole flats as their living rooms are too far form the hall.

                        4 Wifi access points from 4 adsl lines supplying wifi to 9 flats is how it's configured now. I am trying to reduce the existing config to a single ADSL line. Remeber existing ADSL cabling was done by the phone operator and might have been there 100 years, so I cannot even guarantee there is a way to recable it without lots of drilling (it's not my building). If I have to do a big cable job i will spend more than I save.

                        I had a couple ideas - sending internet through the mains (probably won't work because of the electricity meters) and the other was to use Coax routers. That's where I am at now.

                        I had a look at this
                        http://www.aphelions.com/Aphelion_WICA.htm and variations of it but all I could find was people saying it probably won't work well because of line loss. Not many people have tried it.

                        This one looks the most interesting out of the options so far

                        Actiontec’s Gateways and Extenders incorporate the most advanced WiFi 7 technology, including tri-band 4x4x4 with 10Gbps WAN/LAN throughput on our flagship WiFi 7 gateway. We’ve optimized antenna placement on three dimensions to deliver a robust signal between floors and to the far corners of the home.

                        Comment

                        • jpdw
                          Automated Home Guru
                          • Oct 2007
                          • 169

                          #13
                          Ok, looks like you're preferred route is via the coax, though i still reckon that getting you to several (reasonable quality) Wifi Access Points back to a central DSL line would work. Dont let your experience of Wifi-in-DSL-routers taint your view of how well Wifi can work with reasonable (and I dont necessarily mean expensive) kit.

                          And if you mean "WDS" type kit as Wifi repeaters, I'm not really suprised. It's a nice idea in concept -- wireless wireless -- but in practise it's slow, doubles the number of channels used, therefore doubles the opportunity to suffer interference and have to resend etc,...,... I'm sure it works great if you have 1 AP and 1 repeater in the middle of a field several miles from anything else.... Best way is cable to the Wifi Access Point. This also allows the AP to be positioned ideally for where the laptops will be, not a compromise between that and the link to it's uplink AP ... anyway,... I digress....

                          I looked at Coax routers myself a while ago to a particular room (there was a specific reason -- to lengthy to mention now - why I couldn't use my WLAN). At the time they were around £100+ each. And these were just Coax-Ethernet -- not the Coax-802.11 WLAN you'd need. My point is that -- in my experience -- running a small number of data points would be cheaper and allow you do concentrate to a single DSL line. Maybe your landlord is the issue but I'd still be suprised if there isnt a way.

                          If you do decide against coax for any reason then by all means PM me and I'm happy to discuss further to see if you could do a central DSL with several APs dotted around. I do this stuff for a living because I think its great technology, so I'm happy to advise if I can help you ( I work for an enterprise vendor so this is NOT a sales pitch, just offer of free advice!).
                          Last edited by jpdw; 24 January 2010, 12:37 AM.
                          Jon

                          Comment

                          • michaeldon
                            Automated Home Jr Member
                            • Jul 2009
                            • 23

                            #14
                            Thanks Jon

                            Just wondering. You say cisco is no good for repeating? Who is good and what's the difference?

                            How many times can you repeat a wifi signal before you get significant degradation?

                            Comment

                            • TimH
                              Automated Home Legend
                              • Feb 2004
                              • 509

                              #15
                              Originally posted by michaeldon View Post
                              I also thought of passing internet through the mains circuit, but apparently the electricity meter on each flat will block that out, so that is a no-no.
                              This would've been my suggestion. It's true that MCBs can drop the speed through these devices, not sure about a meter though, and whether an old-skool spinny-disc one would be better than a modern electronic meter.

                              Do you have a "tame" tennant you could try it with?

                              How much control do you have over the wiring in the flats? Could you extract the network signal from before the meter and either bypass or install an access point in each flat?

                              Old-skool networking was on coax but 50-ohm (IIRC). Aerial cable is likely to be 75-ohm Maybe some products would still work...

                              Wireless would be the other obvious solution but you've commented on that. Just out of interest, why do you need 4 ADSL lines and not 1 line serving 4 access points?

                              What other service voids do you have? I'm thinking of plumbing corridors, lift shafts, janitor rooms etc.
                              What about up the outside of the building?

                              Just some thoughts, HTH,

                              Tim.
                              My Flickr Photos

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