Newbie, House Renovation, Suggestions pretty please?

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  • Steelercaz
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • Jul 2010
    • 14

    #16
    Originally posted by Kevin View Post
    I was really suggesting these because it seemed you might not have the star mains wiring or low voltage bus structure in place for ceiling lighting. There are quite a few RF solutions - some two way and some single way. The C-Bus solution is , as you say 'top end' and although these switches are cost effective later expansion would be at a price...


    Yes there is a remote control available . The switches are UK sized but require deep back boxes, also best for new build style walls rather than thick stone. To later control these via xAP you would need the C-Bus wireless gateway/bridge and a xAP gateway which is going to cost maybe £300 or so at retail. If you're not intending a fuller C-Bus system then this route probably isn't going to appeal even though these switches are well priced.

    Another thought take a look at HomeEasy from B&Q which is very low cost.

    Don't dismiss X10 as it isn't necessarily a bad route, even if you do decide later to replace it with something else, there is still a second hand market.

    K
    Morning Kevin!

    I investigated the light switches I was hoping that I could use these on last night, and unfortunately they all have 25mm back boxes. I could change 1 of them, which is in a new stud wall we've built, but the other 2 are on external brick walls...

    It's a shame as, even away from the HA side they would have been really useful, as the lighting controls downstairs are a royal pain in the ass - you enter the house in the hall, and walk into the lounge - there's a light switch for the lounge ceiling light and what was the other half of the open-plan room on another - this space has now been walled off with a stud wall, and is one half of the new kitchen diner. So far so good. However, on walking through the stud wall into this dining part, the only switch you have at the side of the door is for the new under-cupboard lights in the kitchen half of the room. You have to cross to the other half, by the back door, to turn on the kitchen or dining lights on.

    The wireless linking up would have totally fixed this! Is there any other solution, even if it was standalone and not tied into the bigger picture of HA, that could do the same job in 25mm back boxes, without costing the earth? I wouldn't mind about controlling these lights remotely - I'm planning on using lamps more for that for now.

    I'm spending some time refining exactly what my requirements are now I know a little more, and putting together a 'spec' of what I want to achieve, long and short term. Hopefully that will help me be a bit more succinct on here!
    My fledgling blog about the technology side of renovating our first house: http://firsttechhome.wordpress.com/

    Comment

    • Kevin
      Moderator
      • Jan 2004
      • 558

      #17
      In my sisters newbuild they even managed to put switches behind the opening door as you enter teh room...

      Take a look at that B&Q stocked HomeEasy range... does have both xAP/xPL possibilities later down your path. Switches are just stick on with batteries. Dimming is a little weird on some models (press to start and again to stop). There is an LCD remote that also allows scheduling.



      K

      Comment

      • chris_j_hunter
        Automated Home Legend
        • Dec 2007
        • 1713

        #18
        a few thoughts, hopefully useful (all IMO) :

        + X10 - see :



        for why we've kept well clear ! Not so cheap, either, when everything's taken into account, IMO ...

        + Cat-5e / Cat-6 - getting more in now will cause less upset than later !

        + the Idratek guys tend to under-sell their system ... the cost of it can be quite modest, compared to alternatives, when it's all added-up ... and the intelligence they have built-in goes way beyond what's available elsewhere ...

        + did you see Gumby's blog on his Idratek install :



        month by month he includes lots of useful info' & examples, from his installation ...

        + IDRANet has a free topology, which gives a lot of freedom for getting the wires in - run a wire from your HA PC, and run it around the house (no need to come-back), branching-off it (typically at a module, 'though it doesn't have to be that way) as many times as might be convenient ... and wherever it goes, it'll be just one wire (unshielded, or shielded if intercom features are part of the set-up) ...

        + wall-switches are not strictly necessary - if the lights are automatic, the switch is only for user-input & could be more convenient when placed elsewhere ...

        + speaker-cables - we've found we get much better sound quality when we keep them as short as possible - so running them between rooms is not (IMO) a good idea - ie: it's better to do the running (cable or wireless) at pre-amp or digital level & use active speakers (ie: ones with amplifier built-in) - we find it makes a big difference to clarity & fidelity ! Speaker cables can be quite expensive, too ... and there's a lot of mumbo-jumbo said & written about them, in regard to their various pros & cons, but the essential issue is something called damping factor - see here :



        which includes guidelines for maximum length, and here :



        HTH

        Chris


        PS: Idratek have lots of datasheets :

        Older Datasheets Datasheets for older products can be found here.


        scroll-down for their How To Wire guides !


        PPS: more options, for control from your iPhones / iPod touch / iPad :



        we're hoping to go this way (got the builders in at the moment, so a lot of noise & dust & not quite ready to do our install & then try / sort this approach - but expect it to work) ...
        Last edited by chris_j_hunter; 25 July 2010, 07:21 PM. Reason: PS & PPS
        Our self-build - going further with HA...

        Comment

        • chris_j_hunter
          Automated Home Legend
          • Dec 2007
          • 1713

          #19
          PS: Idratek have lots of datasheets :

          Older Datasheets Datasheets for older products can be found here.


          scroll-down for their How To Wire guides !
          Our self-build - going further with HA...

          Comment

          • chris_j_hunter
            Automated Home Legend
            • Dec 2007
            • 1713

            #20
            PS: more options, for control from your iPhones / iPod touch / iPad :



            we're hoping to go this way (got the builders in at the moment, so a lot of noise & dust & not quite ready to do our install & then try / sort this approach - but expect it to work) ...
            Our self-build - going further with HA...

            Comment

            • Steelercaz
              Automated Home Jr Member
              • Jul 2010
              • 14

              #21
              Hi guys

              I've had a few days where we've been that tied up in the renovations I haven't had a huge amount of time to spend on this, but I have researched all your suggestions. I've come to the unfortunate conclusion that whilst Idratek would've been perfect, my other half will quite likely kill me if I go channelling into all the nice new plaster, and get him running more wires... So, I'm going to have to stick to the more 'standalone' technologies.

              Because what I was looking for was quite muddled, I created a 'spec' sheet of what I actually want to achieve, short and long term, and it has helped narrow my thoughts a little.

              Most immediately, I would like to see if it is possible to use HA technology to fix the strange lighting setup, without running more wires. Having looked at various options, I actually think Kevin's suggestion of HomeEasy might work best - though I hate going for the 'consumer' option! I think it has the potential to sort out the immediate issues, with potential down the line for xap/xpl control, to integrate it into other things. Also, I have some vouchers entitling me to about 30-35% off the range in B&Q...if I buy before August 1st! I just spent 30 minutes in there getting familiar with the range, and understand it much clearer now.

              However, I'm struggling to work out exactly how it would work - I'm going to post the questions on the HomeEasy manufacturer forum, but there have been no posts for over a week there, so hoping someone here is familiar with the range?

              I have done a 5 minute mockup of the layout downstairs, to show how the lighting works currently - walking through the house, the double switch by the lounge door controls the lounge and dining room ceiling (this one doesn't really need to control the dining room light, so we could potentially close this off).

              As you walk into the dining room, the switch by the door turns on the under cupboard lights in the kitchen half of the room, and by the back door is a double switch that controls the dining room light and the kitchen light. Basically, it's a bit awkward.

              In an ideal world, the lounge switch would control the lounge, and maybe utilise the wireless remote technology to control a lamp also. The switch inside the kitchen/diner door would control the dining room light, kitchen light and under cupboard lights (could be 2 switches, if one of them was one of the battery-powered remote jobbies), and the switch by the back door stayed as it was.

              Apparently for a 2 way switch you have to have a Master switch, bought from B&Q, and a slave, bought online. Also, there are 2 types of switches - remote battery powered ones, that can be installed anywhere, and need pairing up with a HomeEasy receiver, or ones that replace the conventional light switches, and control the light via the mains. So, I do know more than I did...

              But, I'm not sure what I'd need and where to control the lights like this. Any ideas? Dimmable would be nice in the lounge, but not a pre-requisite. In the kitchen/diner on/off would be fine.

              Off to post in the HomeEasy forum too, just in case. Thanks in advance if anyone has an idea!

              (PS - the rest of the project is still 'active', just need to get this bit sorted asap, due to the vouchers expiring)


              Image Link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/firsttechhome/4837881686/
              Last edited by Steelercaz; 28 July 2010, 03:26 PM. Reason: Edited to add pic
              My fledgling blog about the technology side of renovating our first house: http://firsttechhome.wordpress.com/

              Comment

              • chris_j_hunter
                Automated Home Legend
                • Dec 2007
                • 1713

                #22
                another option, maybe, for the immediate problem :

                Monitor and control plug-in equipment to reduce energy consumption.


                Monitor and control plug-in equipment to reduce energy consumption.


                the technology used is by EnOcean (a fairly recent off-shoot of Siemens)
                Our self-build - going further with HA...

                Comment

                • Steelercaz
                  Automated Home Jr Member
                  • Jul 2010
                  • 14

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Kevin View Post
                  In my sisters newbuild they even managed to put switches behind the opening door as you enter teh room...

                  Take a look at that B&Q stocked HomeEasy range... does have both xAP/xPL possibilities later down your path. Switches are just stick on with batteries. Dimming is a little weird on some models (press to start and again to stop). There is an LCD remote that also allows scheduling.



                  K
                  Hi Kevin / Everyone else

                  As posted previously, I've 'had' to go down a more aftermarket solution, though I'm most annoyed at myself for not sorting this all out earlier - and thus being able to install Idratek.

                  I've committed to Home Easy, at least for the lighting downstairs, however, their products/peculiarities are giving me a couple of headaches, so I was wondering if you could expand on how I could potentially go down the xAP route with these devices, and therefore what other ranges would open to me to integrate into 'one' system?

                  There's a lot of talk on the Home Easy forums RE xPL, but nothing RE xAP. Would it be a similar setup? (i.e. an RFXCOM transmitter/receiver setup?) I really would prefer to go down xAP if possible - and not just because I'm determined to use your Joggler app! ;-)

                  Any advice on potential routes to xAP control, and therefore the other technologies that opens up would be gratefully received!
                  My fledgling blog about the technology side of renovating our first house: http://firsttechhome.wordpress.com/

                  Comment

                  • aledkthomas
                    Automated Home Lurker
                    • Aug 2010
                    • 8

                    #24
                    good luck with your project.
                    I'm also thinking of using the home easy product range but not for a couple of months so i'm holdding back until i see what you make of it all, see if its any good.

                    Comment

                    • Steelercaz
                      Automated Home Jr Member
                      • Jul 2010
                      • 14

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Steelercaz View Post
                      I actually think Kevin's suggestion of HomeEasy might work best - though I hate going for the 'consumer' option! I think it has the potential to sort out the immediate issues, with potential down the line for xap/xpl control, to integrate it into other things.
                      Ok, so I went with the suggestion that Kevin made some time ago, and have used Home Easy switches and remotes for my lighting control. I've solved all my problems, albeit some of them with switches that don't quite match the others looks-wise and will need some DIY'ing at a later date, but I'm still confused as to the xAP integration that Kevin and others have said is possible with this range.

                      Anyone have any thoughts?

                      As it stands, the switches can be controlled via remote switches, remotes, PIRs, dusk-dawn sensors and magnetic sensors. I've used a mix of switches, remotes and PIRs for mine. They can also be controlled from anywhere via the SMS hub, which I haven't purchased as yet. Also, there are talks of a couple of other ways to control them on the Home Easy forums with a Tellstick USB device and also iPhones (though this is still being worked on).

                      However, I would really like to look at a system that I could integrate other technologies on, as per the first suggestions mentioned - for example X10, heating control and a security system, as well as appliance control (not as keen on the Home Easy for this purpose, sticking more to lighting control, although I do have the remote sockets in the kitchen and one in the main bedroom).

                      xAP sounds perfect for this, and I've heard xPL mentioned, but I can't find anywhere any details of how I would integrate the Home Easy products, or any for that matter, into an xAP controlled system - even on the xAP site.

                      Am I missing something really obvious??
                      My fledgling blog about the technology side of renovating our first house: http://firsttechhome.wordpress.com/

                      Comment

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