(Beginner)- Automating a Corfu villa

[durhammedic]

Hello! I have been lurking these boards for a few weeks now but am at a stage where I need some questions answering before investing in an idratek system:

I am currently involved in a new build villa out in Corfu, Greece and am investigating using idratek to automate several functions in the villa, due to budget constraints for the moment I want to limit it to a few core functions for the minute and then expand as rental income comes in later:

1) Pool control- measuring the temp of the pool, thermostatically controlling its solar heating (diverting water to the solar heater when the temperature drops below a pre-set constraint). Pumps, lights and infinity edge pump can be easily activated by guests.

2) Remote control of main door locks- new tenants can be let into the property after remote identification by camera to collect keys on arrival and can leave keys inside the villa to be locked in at the end of their stay.

3) Security camera monitoring remotely

4) Presence based control lighting and humidity based fan activation in bathrooms and machine rooms

Now I have done some reserch and believe that items 2,3 and 4 are possible but what about 1? Would it be fairly easy to implement?

One other point I am interested in is how able you are to customise the UI of Cortex/ web interface? Ideally the pool controls and door locks could be controlled via a touch screen monitor or Ipad/ tablet pc but for this to work for an inexperienced holiday rental tenent I will need to use a simple and user friendly GUI. I have been playing with the 30 day trial of cortex but have so far not managed to find any way to do this, is it possible?

Thanks,
James

[chris_j_hunter]

interesting - we're part-way through wiring-up our new-build to make similar things possible, so - we believe the answer's yes, but haven't proved it yet ...

For the (thermal) solar, we came to the view that having a dedicated controller might be wise - eg: the IntaEco SolarLogic, a Resol DeltaSol, or a Steca - but, like you, we want the collectors to heat a tank and/or a pool ... we thought of using Idratek relay modules to switch pumps, MoMo valves, temperature sensors, etc, as necessary (fail-safe, of course) ... OTOH, some of the solar controllers can look after two tanks, so maybe there are some that can look after a tank & a pool as well ?

Security camera wise, we similarly came to the view a dedicated IP camera approach might be best - in terms of ease of access & integration with mobile devices, near & far ... Idratek can deal with CCTV images, and use them effectively, but we felt its lack of iPhone & iPad integration was too big a handicap ...

Equally, though, on both counts, we want these things linked into our Idratek set-up, particularly to enhance & take advantage of presence & context sensitivity capabilities - to make things smarter ...

In a sense, in Idratek terms, the basic dedicated approach would provide basic Reflex fall-back capability for these functions ...

Lighting, humidity, door-locks, etc - pretty straightforward, no problem - assuming no PC system crashes etc !

UI-wise, we've on our job-list to experiment with three approaches - the first a simple push-button panel with LEDs for feedback, working via an Idratek digital I/O module ... the second an approach involving a learnable L5 IR dongle & app added to iPhone / iPod touch / iPad to communicate via Idratek IR modules, using appropriately assigned IR codes (chosen not to confuse the TV etc) ... and the third using xAP & maybe a Newtiom ...

HTH

Chris

http://www.l5remote.com/

http://www.xapautomation.org/index.php?title=xAP_Home_Automation_protocol

http://www.phaedrusltd.com/pages/html/netiom-xap.html

[Gumby]

1) Pool control- measuring the temp of the pool, thermostatically controlling its solar heating (diverting water to the solar heater when the temperature drops below a pre-set constraint). Pumps, lights and infinity edge pump can be easily activated by guests.

Pretty easy to do this. You'd need a suitable electrically actuated valve for the diversion, presumably CH type valves would work (or you have the valves already). You'd also need a temperature sensor. This is slightly more awkward since you can't immerse an Idratek temperature sensing module. So you'd need to find either an immersable sensor or perhaps clip one onto a water circulation pipe near the pool. This could be monitored by the analogue module (QAI).

The control logic in Cortex could be as simple as thresholds on the temp reading cause the valve to be actuated. But if you have supplementary heat sources you could come up with something more sophisticated.

Providing user overrides for pumps etc can be done by either having a panel or QBI to provide some buttons, or perhaps some splashproof buttons connected to digital inputs, eg ODI module. Or you could use presence sensing and light level sensing (external PIR connected to ODI and the external light/temp sensor) to decide when to run infinity pump and lighting, so it all comes on automagically for a really wow effect.

The Idratek guys are very helpful with applications, so well worth contacting them via the website - or they may post a response to this directly.

As an aside, with a phased rollout scheme the critical thing is to over-plan so that you can make sure all wires are in place, even if you don't want to put al the modules in initially. Once you start falling in love with automation you'll regret not getting wires in place for the things you originally thought were a luxury. It's much cheaper to get all the wires you can ever think of needing in place at one time than reworking walls or wall coverings or lifting floors to get access later on.

[Gumby]

One other point I am interested in is how able you are to customise the UI of Cortex/ web interface? Ideally the pool controls and door locks could be controlled via a touch screen monitor or Ipad/ tablet pc but for this to work for an inexperienced holiday rental tenent I will need to use a simple and user friendly GUI. I have been playing with the 30 day trial of cortex but have so far not managed to find any way to do this, is it possible?

Idratek have a strong bias to "real" automation, which is the goal of not needing user controls because the system "does the right thing". This is one aspect that differentiates them from other (so-called) home automation systems, which often are really glorified remote controls. Having said that, override controls are always a good idea. IMHO the best way to provide them is using the DFP. This has buttons with icons for typical functions and a customisable on screen menu based scheme for accessing various functions. Since the DFP also includes functions for automation - ie various sensors and relay controllers, it's actually a very cost effective way to automate a room and get a control panel as well.

The Cortex web interface is customisable at two levels.
The simplest level is that you can chose what items are included in the web page. This is easy to do through the Cortex configuration.
The second level is quite technical. The web pages are generated as XML that is converted to HTML via XSLT. Therefore, if you understand XML, XSL and Xpath, you can customise the output significantly.

Actually, there is another user interface customisation route: Cortex supports the open standard for HA applications to communicate: XAP, and (free) applications have been created to create interfaces on eg the O2 joggler. Still a bit technical to do though.

[chris_j_hunter]

solar circuits are usually rated to higher temperatures - ie: regular CH pumps & valves might not be good-enough ...

[Gumby]

OK, useful info - but I assume that electrically actuated valves at the higher temp rating are readily available these days?

[toscal]

Some other things to think about is the chlorine in the pool water. so don't use central heating valves unless they are chlorine resistant. You can buy plastic valves specailly for this purpose.
Also rather than have a touchscreen for guests. Why not just have a switch panel.
So one button to toggle pool lights and when the guest forget to switch them off cortex can then switch them off at 4am.
The same can be done for the rest of the pool and other functions. Much cheaper and a bit more robust. And very simple.
Most solar heating pool systems work by measuring the difference between pool water and the water in the solar collectors, once this difference is x degrees the water is pumped from the solar collectors into the pool via the pool pump. Once the temp difference is almost 0 the pump stops.
For the keys I wouldn't use a camera for facial recognition, unless you can guarantee its 100% reliable in all lighting conditions. Imagine a guest who has had their flight delayed and arrives late, they won't be very happy.Cyber locks maybe be a cheaper alternative. You can program the keys to only open the doors between certain times and dates. They can then leave the keys in a post box type box. The the agent or yourself can pick them up and reprogram them, I believe they also do a special keypad, where you give the guests a pin number they insert key into keypad enter code and key is programmed to operate for their length of stay.
What's power like do you get power cuts, and how is everything going to work if there is no power, you could be in a situation where the guest can't get out or worse the house is left unlocked by leaving guests.
Be very careful with remote security camera monitoring, some people get very funny if they think they are being watched. Check local laws about this. I do know here in Spain a person is legally entitled to any film footage they are on (but you can charge for making a copy for them). And any private cctv systems have to be mounted so they don't look at any public right if way or neighbours property, unless you can prove you can't mount the camera anywhere else.

[durhammedic]

Ok thanks for the information so far. Its good to know I am on the right lines with reguards to what I can do with the system.


Its good to hear the web interface is customizable as there some one individual working on the project is experienced in the XML and website construction- In which case I guess that would probably be the most simple way of remote control from a tablet pc.

With regards to using PIR and light detecting for the pool lighting I believe this is a good idea for sure and would give a "wow factor" whilst remaining economical if supported with a manual method of disabling/ enabling the system so they can be turned off when the property is not in use. Possibly the optimum way to use control the lights would be based on the internal PIR presence detection that if users are in the villa rooms the lights will come on between pre set times with the infinity edge being activated when users are outside around the pool area.

Electrics are currently being fitted into the property with the junction boxes in each room. Now originally their was no plan for home automation- its been a concept for about 2 weeks. The cables have yet to be laid down but in the "greek way" are going into the walls so I will soon need to get a move on with my cable layout! There were plans for a telephone socket to every room. This could easily be modified to a cat 5 cable. How many cat 5's would you recommend routing to each room at how should they be distributed within a room. I presume I will also need a location for node zero- can this go with/ besides the main fuse box? there is also a now unused central heating cavity on the upper floor that could make an alternative node zero if necessary.

I am waiting for a set of windows to be installed to weatherproof the building before actually fully planning the wiring for the HA but your responses are all very intresting and are helping out a lot so keep em comming

[durhammedic]

Some other things to think about is the chlorine in the pool water. so don't use central heating valves unless they are chlorine resistant. You can buy plastic valves specailly for this purpose.
Also rather than have a touchscreen for guests. Why not just have a switch panel.
So one button to toggle pool lights and when the guest forget to switch them off cortex can then switch them off at 4am.
The same can be done for the rest of the pool and other functions. Much cheaper and a bit more robust. And very simple.
Most solar heating pool systems work by measuring the difference between pool water and the water in the solar collectors, once this difference is x degrees the water is pumped from the solar collectors into the pool via the pool pump. Once the temp difference is almost 0 the pump stops.
For the keys I wouldn't use a camera for facial recognition, unless you can guarantee its 100% reliable in all lighting conditions. Imagine a guest who has had their flight delayed and arrives late, they won't be very happy.Cyber locks maybe be a cheaper alternative. You can program the keys to only open the doors between certain times and dates. They can then leave the keys in a post box type box. The the agent or yourself can pick them up and reprogram them, I believe they also do a special keypad, where you give the guests a pin number they insert key into keypad enter code and key is programmed to operate for their length of stay.
What's power like do you get power cuts, and how is everything going to work if there is no power, you could be in a situation where the guest can't get out or worse the house is left unlocked by leaving guests.
Be very careful with remote security camera monitoring, some people get very funny if they think they are being watched. Check local laws about this. I do know here in Spain a person is legally entitled to any film footage they are on (but you can charge for making a copy for them). And any private cctv systems have to be mounted so they don't look at any public right if way or neighbours property, unless you can prove you can't mount the camera anywhere else.

Thanks for the advice, some useful notes there- I was not sure on how solar heating wold work as we are still in the phase of deciding if our budget will stretch to this and have yet fully research the area so that is an interesting note. I presume in the method you were referencing you are using a completely independent loop and panel to the other solar heating systems for water?

With regards to the cameras- we again are thinking about that. With regards to letting guests into the property your idea may also be better so I will look into that lock. If that key system turns out to be better it will mean we are able to reduce the number of cameras with the main gate being the main site.

[toscal]

Just thought of something else. I guess you will have someone who will come and clean the pool they will need manual over ride of the pool pump, I would also go for a separate vacuum port on the side of the pool if you can.
Something I have been toying with for our pool is an automated filling system. As its easy to forget you have left the filling tap on. Flooded the garden on more than once . You could have a button you press and it gives you 20 minutes of water, this should be enough if you fill the pool once a week using this method. You will loose quite a bit of water through evaporation alone. Add in guests jumping in and out of the pool, and your weekly water loss will be quite a lot.
A friend of mine built a water tank near his pool to capture the rain water, it would also capture the water from dripping guests as he had several small drains dotted about the patio, he even had the water drain from the main AC unit feeding into this tank as well (an AC unit can quite easily produce several litres of water a day) . Then he could use this water to fill up the pool and water the garden as well.