Window sensors for UPVC windows.

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  • ludditeal
    Automated Home Sr Member
    • Feb 2004
    • 62

    Window sensors for UPVC windows.

    I will be fitting some new windows to our house in June and I want to add sensors to them so that I can tell windows have been left open by SWMBO and not to run the heating in that room.

    For the internal/external doors I have been installing these sensors as recommended by Karam/Viv

    Huge range of Fire Alarm Systems, Fire Alarm Panels, Domestic Smoke Alarms, Fire Extinguishers, Intruder Alarms, Carbon Monoxide Detectors, Batteries, Test Keys, First Aid Supplies, locks, locking products, architectural hardware - Next Day Delivery - Great Service


    Before I look at installing these in the windows anything else anybody is using??

    Cheers
    Allan
  • mcockerell
    Automated Home Sr Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 74

    #2
    Ther's also a surface mounted version that might be easier to fit:

    Huge range of Fire Alarm Systems, Fire Alarm Panels, Domestic Smoke Alarms, Fire Extinguishers, Intruder Alarms, Carbon Monoxide Detectors, Batteries, Test Keys, First Aid Supplies, locks, locking products, architectural hardware - Next Day Delivery - Great Service



    Martin

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    • chris_j_hunter
      Automated Home Legend
      • Dec 2007
      • 1713

      #3
      we've these on our list - just simple drilling to fit flush & v.neatly :



      much depends on where they're to go exactly, of course - available depth & clearances being major factors ...

      Chubb do locks with microswitches built-in, but we've not had any success with actually being able to buy them !

      these are also on our list :





      we've new windows arriving soon, too - aluminium frames & we couldn't persuade the makers to include sensors, so we're now sure yet what we'll do about them ...
      Last edited by chris_j_hunter; 20 May 2011, 05:55 PM.
      Our self-build - going further with HA...

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      • toscal
        Moderator
        • Oct 2005
        • 2061

        #4
        I do know that it is possible to void the warranty on your windows and doors if you start installing sensors etc. Even if its only 2 small screws. Best to check with the window supplier.
        IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
        Renovation Spain Blog

        Comment

        • Geps
          Automated Home Guru
          • Nov 2010
          • 136

          #5
          Originally posted by chris_j_hunter View Post
          Chubb do locks with microswitches built-in, but we've not had any success with actually being able to buy them !
          As I said before, I work for a Chubb Super Centre so can get the entire stock range. PM me if you're still having difficulty.

          Comment

          • chris_j_hunter
            Automated Home Legend
            • Dec 2007
            • 1713

            #6
            many thanks, I do recall - could I point the guys who are making the doors in your direction, so they can install during manufacture ?

            Chris
            Our self-build - going further with HA...

            Comment

            • Geps
              Automated Home Guru
              • Nov 2010
              • 136

              #7
              Yup, PM me an email address if you don't mind. Can give you more details then.

              Comment

              • JonS
                Automated Home Guru
                • Dec 2007
                • 202

                #8
                I also found that window manufacturers would not supply windows with sensors, however the firm we chose (local UPVC makers) did humour me and said I've have to explain what I wanted to the installers.
                In advance I ran a cat5 cable to each window (from MFP/DFP position) and then the installers fed the cable into the frame as they fitted it.
                I then used a flush mount sensor of the type recommended on Gumby's blog, v similar to the maplin ones Chris mentions. What I found is that unlike a wooden window where the moving part and the frame are in close proximity, UPVC windows have a large ~10mm gap between frame and opening window, so I have had to push the flush mounted contacts proud of the frame to get the sensor to operate correctly. contacts I used have wires hanging out the back and in reality getting the wires and the stiff cat5 cable back into the frame was more tricky than I expected. I have since used the the larger InteliSense (from screwfix) which I have found easier to fit.
                I was caught out by the change of Inputs on the change from MFP to DFP; the MFP has 2 DIs plus an ability to wire a PIR in line with the panel's PIR sensor. This is not there on the DFP so at some point I will have to stop using the spare twisted pair in Idranet cable to the DFP position and use this for the sensor, as I've run a radially to each room from a central point for each floor this should be possible.
                I think my recommendation would now be to keep "security" and Idranet wiring separate so each room has door, window and PIR cables for security back to a security node and a separate cable for Idranet. I made use of the distributed nature of Idranet, so cables for a room go back to DFP position, but it is limiting on expansion now the devices have changed. I cannot add more sensors (of the types Chris mentions) to the room either.
                So back to sensor choice... The intelisense ones are good, you may have enough room inside the frame for the surface mount versions.
                Locks with sensors on sound brilliant, but I cannot make use of it as insufficient DIs where my cables terminate.
                HTH
                Last edited by JonS; 22 May 2011, 01:05 PM.
                JonS

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                • Geps
                  Automated Home Guru
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 136

                  #9
                  Is it not easier to use microswitches? That way only the frame or window needs tweaking.

                  Comment

                  • chris_j_hunter
                    Automated Home Legend
                    • Dec 2007
                    • 1713

                    #10
                    micro-switches or reed-switches - key factor, ISTM, is clarity of the switch - ie: system could have problems if there should be (as it were) a chatter-zone ... and micro-switches might be more difficult in this regard ... (??)
                    Our self-build - going further with HA...

                    Comment

                    • Geps
                      Automated Home Guru
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 136

                      #11
                      Chatter-zone??

                      If you mean where the output can oscillate that shouldn't happen anymore than a magnetic approach. It's down more to how and where you mount the sensor really....

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                      • chris_j_hunter
                        Automated Home Legend
                        • Dec 2007
                        • 1713

                        #12
                        >I also found that window ...

                        interesting ...


                        >DIs ...

                        yep, we've found we needed to get some ODIs to boost DI capability ...


                        >recommend ... keep security and Idranet wiring separate so each room has door, window and PIR cables for security back to a security node and a separate cable for Idranet ...

                        interesting ... though we've found that with most modules now having DIs, the need for plenty of sensors for effective presence sensing and relays for switching this & that, there's generally a DI not too far away ...
                        Our self-build - going further with HA...

                        Comment

                        • JonS
                          Automated Home Guru
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 202

                          #13
                          > DI not too far away...
                          Yes but is there a cable to it!! Thinking of windows with a sensor on the lock, another on the window to see if its open at all, and either a tilt switch or IR proximity sensor that's 3 sensors incl 1 requiring power just to confirm the state of the window (!). That's doable on a single cat5, but not routed back to the DFP, hence my thoughts that (security) cables should be home run.

                          @geps On the why reed switches - I guess its convention of the security industry. Possible advantages smotthness and sealed so may be more resilient in a domestic environment with kids, window cleaners etc about.
                          JonS

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