Cat Proofing Presence . . .

[cliffwright]

Hi Folks,

Has anyone had any experience of 'cat proofing' their Idratek setup?

I'm in the midst of installing the initial pieces of our Idratek setup and based on having a PLH mounted in the ceiling, I find the lights in the bathroom operate based on our 2 cats playing throughout the day . . .

I'm sure I can limit the effect based on behaviour patterns offering timed constraints, but is there any way of at least indicating an 'Human at home' presence based on a door entry routine or similar that could then be a controlling factor of whether certain lights come on or not?

If not, has anyone used any form of beam break device? I'm thinking that maybe having a beam break at 3' high in a doorway might be a way of humanising presence . . . ?

Anyone any ideas?

Cheers

Cliff

[toscal]

You could use some form of RFID tagging. I know you can get RFID collars for pets. Its not a cheap option. But you could then use it for when humans come home as well. Having an RFID device either attached to the car or keyring.
Or pet tolerant PIR sensors work quite well

[cliffwright]

You could use some form of RFID tagging. I know you can get RFID collars for pets. Its not a cheap option. But you could then use it for when humans come home as well. Having an RFID device either attached to the car or keyring.
Or pet tolerant PIR sensors work quite well

Thanks To be honest though, I think the RFID approach seems prohibitively expensive judging by the prices on iautomate.com . . . definitely something to mull over though.

I have bought a 'Pet immune' PIR that I've yet to 'play with' but there tends to be very mixed reviews online about their application so I'm not holding out all that much hope to be honest. [That, and in comparison to the nice neat [IMO] Idratek PIR modules, it looks pretty bulky - not as neat as a ceiling or wall patress mounted PLH for example]

From what I read, the Pet immune PIR's work by essentially masking their 'vision' to the lower planes so in practical terms, only 'sees' above a few feet in a room . . . this is only really applicable in a few rooms . . . rooms that basically don't have 'stuff' that the cats like to climb on . . . no good in the hallway (but probably OK on the landing) . . . possibly no good in bedrooms as they can climb on windowsills and beds . . . will have to trial it with some temporary positioning . . .

I guess if it works tho, it might at least limit the number of cat related presence triggers even if it doesn't eliminate them . . .

Of course, 'I' never wanted cats . . . so I see it as 'the wife's' fault

[toscal]

From what I read, the Pet immune PIR's work by essentially masking their 'vision' to the lower planes so in practical terms, only 'sees' above a few feet in a room . . . this is only really applicable in a few rooms . . . rooms that basically don't have 'stuff' that the cats like to climb on . . . no good in the hallway (but probably OK on the landing) . . . possibly no good in bedrooms as they can climb on windowsills and beds . . . will have to trial it with some temporary positioning . . .

I guess if it works tho, it might at least limit the number of cat related presence triggers even if it doesn't eliminate them . . .

Of course, 'I' never wanted cats . . . so I see it as 'the wife's' fault

Thats how the old ones used to do it, and some of the cheaper varieties still do.
The Visonic ones do it differently and in my opinion more reliably. Their beams are zoned, and the device knows that a human no matter where they are or how they try and make themselves more dog like will always trigger at least 5 zones, where as a dog or cat will never trigger more than 3 zones. And unless your cat launches itself towards the sensor it shouldn't set them off. I have a client with 2 Jack Russels and 2 Siamese cats. No problems apart from once where one of the cats launched itself towards the sensor, from a cupboard. Solution was to move sensor, as moving the cupboard wasn't an option.
We have also fitted Visonic Pet immune sensors in a secure storage warehouse, No cats or dogs but you do get the odd bird or rat. And this has never given a false alarm. Even watched 2 sparrows fly past the sensor when it was armed and it didn't set the alarm off. I did though about a minute later .

[cliffwright]

Thats how the old ones used to do it, and some of the cheaper varieties still do.
The Visonic ones do it differently and in my opinion more reliably. Their beams are zoned, and the device knows that a human no matter where they are or how they try and make themselves more dog like will always trigger at least 5 zones, where as a dog or cat will never trigger more than 3 zones. And unless your cat launches itself towards the sensor it shouldn't set them off. I have a client with 2 Jack Russels and 2 Siamese cats. No problems apart from once where one of the cats launched itself towards the sensor, from a cupboard. Solution was to move sensor, as moving the cupboard wasn't an option.
We have also fitted Visonic Pet immune sensors in a secure storage warehouse, No cats or dogs but you do get the odd bird or rat. And this has never given a false alarm. Even watched 2 sparrows fly past the sensor when it was armed and it didn't set the alarm off. I did though about a minute later .

Ahh . . . Interesting . . . Thankyou

That sounds a more intuitive approach than simply eliminating the lower plane of vision totally.

Looking here, Visonic seem to do 3 different 'Pet Immune' PIR's - a "Next+ K9-85", a "V-Pet" and a "Discovery K9-80" - . . . do you know what the difference is and which I should be using for a domestic situation? All the descriptions basically seem to add up to the same difference to me . . .

Wiring wise - how would the following be wired to a digital input? Would the two grey 'N.C alarm' connections route to the digital input and the two 12v -/+ connections draw power from an Idranet pair using the '12v & 0v' idranet connections?



Thanks for your advice

[Karam]

Wiring wise - how would the following be wired to a digital input? Would the two grey 'N.C alarm' connections route to the digital input and the two 12v -/+ connections draw power from an Idranet pair using the '12v & 0v' idranet connections?

Yes that would be the way to do it

[toscal]

Next+ K9-85 pets up to 38KG and range 15m Also uses some extra digital processing to help prevent false alarms. (these ones I have used and they work)
V-Pet pets up to 27Kg and range 12m
Discovery K9-80 pets upto 36Kg and range 12m uses similar tech to the Next+.

There is also the Next Duo K9-85 this is the same as the normal Next+ but also has a microwave sensor as well. So it compares the responses from the IR and the microwave if both get triggered then its an alarm.

[cliffwright]

Yes that would be the way to do it

Thanks Karam - great support as usual

Next+ K9-85 pets up to 38KG and range 15m Also uses some extra digital processing to help prevent false alarms. (these ones I have used and they work)
V-Pet pets up to 27Kg and range 12m
Discovery K9-80 pets upto 36Kg and range 12m uses similar tech to the Next+.

There is also the Next Duo K9-85 this is the same as the normal Next+ but also has a microwave sensor as well. So it compares the responses from the IR and the microwave if both get triggered then its an alarm.

Thanks toscal - I'll give the K9-85's a whirl then and see how I get on with it

Thanks for your advice Will report back with my experiences.

Cheers

Cliff

[JonS]

Sorry a bit late picking this one up but with a cat to ignore and small children to detect I ended up with Activ8 PIRs which sound similar in operation to the ones Toscal mentioned. http://www.sdfirealarms.co.uk/Activ8...y-Pet-PIR.html
The sensor can be tuned to ignore in two bands either upto 25kg (dog) or 15kg(cat). In the 15kg setting it ignores the cat, but detects small children. Its not perfect though, if the cat jumps on tables it does trigger sometimes. As smallest is now >25kg I could raise the threshold, but transient or slow movement at the edge of the room is still sometimes ignored. e.g. The kids love creeping around in the kitchen trying not to switch the lights on - its a game where smallest has a distinct advantage!
HTH

[toscal]

Kids can always be guaranteed to find a way to either trigger something they shouldn't or try and find a way not to trigger something.

[chris_j_hunter]

Sorry a bit late ... Activ8 PIRs which sound similar ...

http://www.sdfirealarms.co.uk/Activ8-PIR-Motion-Detector-with-Pet-Immunity-Pet-PIR.html

those look particularly neat & the price seems good, too ... wonder if there's any advantage to using them alongside the Idratek PIRs ?

[JonS]

The Idratek PIRs are extremely sensitive which is great, unless you want to ignore pets! As an example of sensitivity, our hamster recently escaped late one night - I know when it escaped as the Idratek PIRs on the landing picked it up!
So the only advantage is if you don't want the Idratek PIRS, or you want extra coverage. TBH I wired for PIRs in standard locations but have mainly used Idratek devices. Because of pet issues, I'm slowly adding 3rd party PIRs and disabling the Idratek ones in Cortex. If flood wiring a home I'd strongly recommend wiring for 3rd party PIRs as much for future proofing (e.g. providing an alarm if Cortex removed) even if you have no intention of having pets.
HTH