SMJ remote on 433.92MHz compatible with Tecknet RF light fitting?

[Tedy]

I have the following RF plug socket and remote from SMJ (http://www.maplin.co.uk/remote-controlled-socket-220687) working on the 433.92MHz band and wanted to know if it would be compatible with the "Remote 47680 Control Lamp Holder-with Dimmer Function" (http://www.tecknetonline.co.uk/produ...-Function.html), which is also operational on the RF frequency.

The problem is I do not know if it conforms to the 433.92MHz band, it probably does, but that's just a probably. I find myself having to ask here because the company will not get to my specific query and I was hoping somebody might have some knowledge on the matter?

Basically I want to use my existing remote, the dinky three function one, for the Tecknet light switch as well as the wall and wondered if the two were compatible?


Thanks guys!

[toscal]

First are they made by the same company.
Secondly its like asking if a remote for a LG TV will work with a Philips TV.
Just because they use the same frequency doesn't mean they will work together. You have different codes some longer than others.
What you should be asking do they use the same protocols or instructions. If they do then they should work together.

[Tedy]

new product: PRO ELEC - RCL-01

Well it wasn't apparent to me that these items were from the same company, how did you come to this conclusion?

I only assumed that if they worked along the same frequency that they would be controlled in the same way, simply on or off.

Since then I have found another light socket fitting which definitely uses the 433.92 frequency, but again, still have not received a reply. This one (I think) is from "Pro-Elec" of which the details can be seen here:

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/32754.pdf

The product here:

http://uk.farnell.com/pro-elec/rcl-01/socket-light-remote-control/dp/1367078

..and again I ask if anybody can tell me if the two are compatible because I don't know enough about these things.

Thanks.

[gazza_d]

Unless they are by the same manufacturer then it is 99.99% certain that they will not be compatible. Different ranges by one manufacturer are often not compatible with each other

You can get remotes of ebay like this one which will learn/clone the commands of this type of remote, or you could get a computer based system such as a Tellstick or similar - again though you would need to check that the devices you are wanting to use are supported.

OR buy everything from one range such as Home Easy from somewhere like Maplin

[Tedy]

clone remote, hmmmm

Thanks for the heads-up on the remote, I really wanted to keep my existing dinky one, to cut costs and because I liked it. In all honesty I do not like the one advertised, but I'm sure there are other designs, still from a technical perspective it may very well offer more more options.

The poster before mentioned that the two items I listed as separate are in fact from the same manufacturer, I am still awaiting a reply on how he knows this, but if that is the case then I don't really know who this stuff is from. Although I suspect that much of what is available is only from a handful of manufacturers anyway as this sector is still, bewilderingly, in its fragmented infancy.

So, on your advice, I could get the two original products, in conjunction with the "clone" remote and have a workable setup?

P.S. I have the Z-wave USB dongle from Tricklestar, as well as a 3-pin wall plug to go with it, the problem is I have a laptop and once powered down the network needs to be set-up again and it's such a hassle, it really defeats the purpose of being remote control in that instance. Software needs to be written to allow it to function on a network, much like a central hub, that of a Mac Mini server type set-up.

[gazza_d]

Thanks for the heads-up on the remote, I really wanted to keep my existing dinky one, to cut costs and because I liked it. In all honesty I do not like the one advertised, but I'm sure there are other designs, still from a technical perspective it may very well offer more more options.

The poster before mentioned that the two items I listed as separate are in fact from the same manufacturer, I am still awaiting a reply on how he knows this, but if that is the case then I don't really know who this stuff is from. Although I suspect that much of what is available is only from a handful of manufacturers anyway as this sector is still, bewilderingly, in its fragmented infancy.

So, on your advice, I could get the two original products, in conjunction with the "clone" remote and have a workable setup?

Not sure with the remote I found on ebay. My experience with a lot of this cheap chinese sourced stuff is that often it'll work, but sometimes it won't. It was there to illustrate that learning remotes are possible and available.

This 433.92mhz control is a minefield, and the only way at the moment to gaurantee compatibilty is to stick to a single range from a large manufacturer like Home Easy so such like. I bought some cheap remote controlled sockets and it took ages to track the actual manufacturer down before I could verify compatibility.

P.S. I have the Z-wave USB dongle from Tricklestar, as well as a 3-pin wall plug to go with it, the problem is I have a laptop and once powered down the network needs to be set-up again and it's such a hassle, it really defeats the purpose of being remote control in that instance. Software needs to be written to allow it to function on a network, much like a central hub, that of a Mac Mini server type set-up.

I actually have a Tellstick usb transmitter, which I have plugged into a Pogoplug running Linux 24/7. It does lots of other stuff as well (upnp media server, bittorrent server, ampache music library, ebook library, etc), and including the 2 usb harddrives consumes about 10W. I use a really nice web app for the Tellstick called HomeAutomation, and how I set mine up is here

[Tedy]

Well it looks like Home Easy can give me the products I want (I quite like the idea of the retrofit ceiling light holder) and they don't cost that much more, but it means I've got some stuff just hanging around.

Not an unusual thing for people who adopt early, but I think with the likes of Z-wave I have made a good investment, and will return to it some day. However that means Home Easy's stuff it going to be defunct, if switching to an all z-wave solution, which would be best. I noticed that someone is providing z-wave/zigbee solutions which are interchangeable, I don't know if that is a good or a bad thing?

I see you must be quite into HA as you've gone the complete open source route, I personally appreciate that but think it's difficult enough to get the right setup and so am more interested in building on top of the released API from the TrickleStar guys.

As I mentioned my problem is that I have a laptop (MacBook) and I wanted a MacMini as my home server, so I want an all-Mac solution. As an interim measure I thought I could plug in the USB dongle into my Time Capsule (it has a USB on the back for connecting extHDDs) but the dongle will not work on a network, but the best thing I've seen for what I think could be a hardware only solution could be the "Sharing Station" from IOGEAR which gives access to USB devices over a network:

http://www.gizmag.com/iogear-wireless-4-port-usb-sharing-station/19471/

Alas though I have not tried it and the people from TrickleStar have not, so I don't know if it work and things are tight my end. If it did work would you be able to recommend an iOS app which could take advantage of a set-up like that?

Thanks!

[gazza_d]

Well it looks like Home Easy can give me the products I want (I quite like the idea of the retrofit ceiling light holder) and they don't cost that much more, but it means I've got some stuff just hanging around.

Not an unusual thing for people who adopt early, but I think with the likes of Z-wave I have made a good investment, and will return to it some day. However that means Home Easy's stuff it going to be defunct, if switching to an all z-wave solution, which would be best. I noticed that someone is providing z-wave/zigbee solutions which are interchangeable, I don't know if that is a good or a bad thing?

I see you must be quite into HA as you've gone the complete open source route, I personally appreciate that but think it's difficult enough to get the right setup and so am more interested in building on top of the released API from the TrickleStar guys.

As I mentioned my problem is that I have a laptop (MacBook) and I wanted a MacMini as my home server, so I want an all-Mac solution. As an interim measure I thought I could plug in the USB dongle into my Time Capsule (it has a USB on the back for connecting extHDDs) but the dongle will not work on a network, but the best thing I've seen for what I think could be a hardware only solution could be the "Sharing Station" from IOGEAR which gives access to USB devices over a network:

http://www.gizmag.com/iogear-wireless-4-port-usb-sharing-station/19471/

Alas though I have not tried it and the people from TrickleStar have not, so I don't know if it work and things are tight my end. If it did work would you be able to recommend an iOS app which could take advantage of a set-up like that?

Thanks!

If you already have a Z-wave controller like the Tricklestar seems to be and some z-wave devices already then that is the way to go.

I have seen these usb sharing stations before, and all the ones I have seen have been limited to storage, stuff that needed particular drivers seemed troublesome at best. Also at the price, you may be better putting it towards a Mac Mini.

Don't do Apple or z-wave myself so couldn't recommend anything, but google should be your friend here, or hopefully some other kindly souls will chip in here.

My tech also tends to be on a shoestring, so I know how important it is to research and pick the best fit, and value. That for me is one of the attractions of Opensource and linux - there is some very good stuff out there which is freely available, and can be extended and hacked with. I managed to hack the homeautomation server to tweet when devices were turned on and off - very useful for being notified when the heating kicks in automatically.

Lights are my next target actually, but need to be cunning as getting the missus to let me drop a couple of hundred on the controllers at once will be nigh on impossible! I plan on adding a controller to each light as I replace the 4 fitments which are not yet low energy.

[toscal]

Well it wasn't apparent to me that these items were from the same company, how did you come to this conclusion?

I only assumed that if they worked along the same frequency that they would be controlled in the same way, simply on or off.
.

Where did I say in my post that they where from the same company. I only asked if they where.

[Tedy]

cheap, quick and dirty

Well you see, for me the API route is more expensive because it would require not only the hiring of a programmer to get me the concession I wanted with the software to fit my needs but also the maintenance. There is method to Microsofts madness when they said that open source was more expensive than their own

I am looking for a short term solution to be honest, in a mult-ihouse share right now I don't need anything that interconnected or complete, but am on the right path with Z-wave I think too.

I tell you what, I'm going the cheapo route, I'm going to get one of the light fittings and the clone remote and let you (and the forum) know how it goes. Personally I am optimistic, I think it'll work and for people in my condition that will be a cheap, quick and dirty option.

Thanks.

[Tedy]

Where did I say in my post that they where from the same company. I only asked if they where.

Oh yea, I must have miss read that, sorry.

[Tedy]

The clone remote arrived today.

I got this four channel clone remote from eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Channel-Cloning-Duplicator-433-92MHz-Remote-Control-/270835765985?pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item3f0f11d2e1#ht_2555wt_1189

As you can see it has a slider on it and four buttons, so that one button for on and the other for off, which means it's actually only capable of controlling two on/off items. This is fine for me, but you'd be rueful if you believed it to control four devices as most have an on/off status.

Also the buttons are a little tough to press, they're flush with the surface and because of the sliding cover you'll ned nails to press "C" and "D". To remedy this i removed the sliding cover, easily enough (it's all plastic from China!) and placed some white-tak (like blue-tak but white - which is better for hanging posters on walls) on the buttons as a place holder for the next bit. That being some cotton bud plastic necks sliced to about 1mm in height, then taping all over the four buttons using my nail to get the definition around the raised areas.

Once secure I slit a central piece (in-between "A" and "B") to reveal the light which is important when programming the buttons are it provides the necessary feedback.

So, here it is:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39662513@N02/6396186991/in/photostream

To program the device, which, so far, works with the SMJ remote (http://www.maplin.co.uk/remote-controlled-socket-220687) you'll have to do it all in one go. Because I was making the mistake of programming the buttons one by one, the instructions as follows:

1. Press and hold "A" and "B" until the blue LED flashes (apron 3 sec)
2. Hold the other remote close to the clone remote (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXWNU...eature=related)
3. Press one of the buttons (e.g. the one to turn the device on) as well as e.g. "A" on the clone remote _at the same time_ until the blue light on the clone remote flashes steadily (initially it flashes about 3 times quickly, then stops, it will will be the quick steady flashing after this you want)
4. To reset the remote repeat step 1, if you wish to program the other the buttons ("B", "C" and "D") then repeat from step 2 otherwise you'll keep resetting the remote and wonder why the previously programmed buttons keep doing nothing.


All in all, step one (controlling the SMJ module works, the device has been modified to be easier to use, understanding how to program the device was trial and error (there's always that dread you've wasted your money when it doesn't work first time) and it arrived next day, all for £5.78 (P7P included).

I will let you know if it works with the "Remote 47680 Control Lamp Holder-with Dimmer Function" (http://www.tecknetonline.co.uk/produ...-Function.html) which I have ordered from Amazon for £10.76.

[gazza_d]

Great news, and very interesting. Keep us posted.

[Tedy]

Arrived & tested

Okay well it arrived today and to cut to the chase, it didn't work, or not yet at least. However here are the reasons why I don't think it did. By the way I'm no technical expert and so anybody with some input on this would be welcome.

First of all lets see what I'm dealing with; here is one of the light modules and the remote, it's a fairly chunky remote:


<untitled> 1 by fronterpeed, on Flickr

Here is the same setup but with the lid off:


<untitled> 2 by fronterpeed, on Flickr

..a closer look - if anybody can tell me where the transmitter is please do. Usually the clone remote will pick it up with the casing on but, as the video demonstrated, it's an idea to pass it all over. However I did try to pick up the signal by focusing at point-blank-range on separate parts of the chipset, but I think we both know if I had to do that it wasn't going to work anyway:


<untitled> 3 by fronterpeed, on Flickr


Here is everything that I am playing with (except the 3-pin UK plug module for the SMJ remote):


<untitled> 4 by fronterpeed, on Flickr

Okay so it's a strange set-up, one would have to read the instructions to fathom it as there are only two buttons: Number 1 corresponds to module 1 and the rest… I am dealing with one module. To use it press:

ON: button 1 once
Dim down: button 1 and hold
Brighten up: button 1 and hold
OFF: button 1 once

So what went wrong? It's 433.92MHz, what's going on?! Well I think the issue can be seen by the LED itself because if I press the button on the SMJ remote the LED with continually flash at a very rapid rate, the clone remote can pick this up. But, unless the flickering is so rapid with the remote from "LectroLite" I think it sends the signal once and the clone remote cannot pick it up.

But, I thought to myself, that may be the case for the on/off instruction but surely not for the dim settings, however it still did not work. I had to be careful because I am using an energy saving bulb and they don't like dimming down (so it was strait to step 3) - you know incandescent cannot be purchased any more, it's actually illegal under stupid EU law!

So I just don't think it's going to pick up the signal. I don't know if the LED is not flickering rapidly because it's designed that way, but the signal is continuously being sent or not, or if the clone remote is just not a good one for all signals?

So I have a two remote situation here, which is not what I wanted but the functionality is there.Hopefully, like last night, I will not wake up again with the light on. I have accepted that it will not work now, however I was looking forward to just recording the on and off state of the ceiling light remote as I only had two free buttons on the clone remote free anyway.

But I noticed when I turned the ceiling light on that it would hum like a bee, until I rotated to its third remote setting to push the brightness all the way up, which would then stop the noise. This also conveniently left it one step before the fourth setting, of which it could be switched off with one click mind. I find it strange though that it wouldn't power up completely to the max when switching it on initially, I can understand pressing it the second time would reduce it by a few volts or so, but why not power up to the max on the first? I don't think (and am not able to test) if it remembers the last light setting from when it was last turned off, but I didn't read anything about that.


Any suggestions?

[gazza_d]

Okay well it arrived today and to cut to the chase, it didn't work, or not yet at least. However here are the reasons why I don't think it did. By the way I'm no technical expert and so anybody with some input on this would be welcome.

First of all lets see what I'm dealing with; here is one of the light modules and the remote, it's a fairly chunky remote:


<untitled> 1 by fronterpeed, on Flickr

Here is the same setup but with the lid off:


<untitled> 2 by fronterpeed, on Flickr

..a closer look - if anybody can tell me where the transmitter is please do. Usually the clone remote will pick it up with the casing on but, as the video demonstrated, it's an idea to pass it all over. However I did try to pick up the signal by focusing at point-blank-range on separate parts of the chipset, but I think we both know if I had to do that it wasn't going to work anyway:


<untitled> 3 by fronterpeed, on Flickr


Here is everything that I am playing with (except the 3-pin UK plug module for the SMJ remote):


<untitled> 4 by fronterpeed, on Flickr

Okay so it's a strange set-up, one would have to read the instructions to fathom it as there are only two buttons: Number 1 corresponds to module 1 and the rest… I am dealing with one module. To use it press:

ON: button 1 once
Dim down: button 1 and hold
Brighten up: button 1 and hold
OFF: button 1 once

So what went wrong? It's 433.92MHz, what's going on?! Well I think the issue can be seen by the LED itself because if I press the button on the SMJ remote the LED with continually flash at a very rapid rate, the clone remote can pick this up. But, unless the flickering is so rapid with the remote from "LectroLite" I think it sends the signal once and the clone remote cannot pick it up.

I think what is going on here that the signal from the SMJ remote may be sending the light controller into a "learning" mode. My cheap Status sockets do something similar, and the led flashes quickly. Once that occurs I need to press the on button on the remote again.

What you need to know and remember, is the 433.92Mhz is just the frequency. What happens is that the remote sends an identification string, and a command string encoded digitally. The Controlled device constantly listens on the frequency (like an FM radio tuned to an empty freq). When it hears a signal, it checks that it from a device it knows (the Id signal), and then does the action in the command. These strings vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and range to range which is why a lot of the time devices and remotes are not compatible.

But, I thought to myself, that may be the case for the on/off instruction but surely not for the dim settings, however it still did not work. I had to be careful because I am using an energy saving bulb and they don't like dimming down (so it was strait to step 3) - you know incandescent cannot be purchased any more, it's actually illegal under stupid EU law!

So I just don't think it's going to pick up the signal. I don't know if the LED is not flickering rapidly because it's designed that way, but the signal is continuously being sent or not, or if the clone remote is just not a good one for all signals

So I have a two remote situation here, which is not what I wanted but the functionality is there.Hopefully, like last night, I will not wake up again with the light on. I have accepted that it will not work now, however I was looking forward to just recording the on and off state of the ceiling light remote as I only had two free buttons on the clone remote free anyway.

But I noticed when I turned the ceiling light on that it would hum like a bee, until I rotated to its third remote setting to push the brightness all the way up, which would then stop the noise. This also conveniently left it one step before the fourth setting, of which it could be switched off with one click mind. I find it strange though that it wouldn't power up completely to the max when switching it on initially, I can understand pressing it the second time would reduce it by a few volts or so, but why not power up to the max on the first? I don't think (and am not able to test) if it remembers the last light setting from when it was last turned off, but I didn't read anything about that.

Is this with the clone remote off ebay, the smj remote, or the original remote?
It sounds like it is down to the device monitoring and acting on the repeats of the remote commands. It may be that the clone remote sends the commands at different intervals which is confusing the device.

Any suggestions?