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Thread: xAP Weather Schema Schema add change request

  1. #11
    Moderator Kevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev_t View Post
    KH

    I guess you are referring to the fact that the rain= key does not specify the units

    We already have at least two implentations which just report rain=

    Pete says his Cumulus is reporting in mm
    My WD is reporting in inches
    Yes exactly my point - allowing people to use their own parameters has introduced an inconsistency within a schema that itself defined well the measurement units.

    Also there is no indication of teh period of measurement - per hour - per day etc..

    It's these sort of things we must avoid or people should use another schema of their own.

    A discussion on fixing this schema took place in 2008 and was not resolved and has been raised on a number of different support forum since, we should progress this now and update the wiki so we don't have to revisit
    kevint
    Agreed - but we need a champion who understands the schema and can make reasoned and complete changes. Are humidity and rain all we need ?

    K

  2. #12
    Automated Home Jr Member pete_c's Avatar
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    On the Cumulus side most (many) folks are utilizing the Fine Offset or Davis weather instruments. I personally utilize the humidity / rain for a functional multizoned watering device (xAP) which calculates ET (evapotranspiration) based on this data. (internal weather instruments versus internet weather stations). I am into weather though and my Home automation screens plot data from the weather stations. (three today; 1-wire, Fine Offset and Davis).

    I also send my data to WeatherUnderground. Here are some links of my stuff:

    http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...p?ID=KILLOCKP1

    http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...p?ID=KILLOCKP7

    http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...p?ID=KILLOCKP8

    http://lockport.golffan.us/

    http://lockport2.golffan.us/

    http://lockport3.golffan.us/

    So I can't speak for others using the Cumulus weather station.

    On a concurrent endeavor though I am "pushing" to add xAP data to a Linux based application called "WeatherView" which is kind of similiar to Cumulus but a Linux program which I do have running and configured to talk to my Davis Weather Station and it is working fine. It would be beneficial here to use the documented xAP schema (weather report) which included both humidity and rain aside from the rest of the already included data.
    Last edited by pete_c; 9th February 2012 at 02:34 PM.

  3. #13
    Automated Home Sr Member kev_t's Avatar
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    Rain:-

    On the period for reporting, I have always understood that rainfall is reset at midnight

    Clearly you are proposing that there be two 'rains'

    one for metric say rainSI, eng units would be mm

    one for imperial say rainI, the eng units would be inches

    as with all other keys, these would be optional

    Of course this makes the current implementations not meet the newly redefined schema, but if that is what it takes to make progress then so be it

    Humidity:-

    the key for this would be humidity

    The eng units would be given to be %

    this key is optional

    I don't know what if any other optional keys we might need, these are the ones we are discussing now

    I would reiterate:-
    "In any case any receiving application should gracefully ignore, ie not break, if it gets keys it does not recognise"

    Is this acceptable to all?

    kevint

  4. #14
    Automated Home Jr Member pete_c's Avatar
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    one for metric say rainSI, eng units would be mm

    one for imperial say rainI, the eng units would be inches
    What the the "S" in "rainSI" stand for?

    Thinking maybe simplier like:

    RainM
    RainI

    and globally/internationall isn't humidity usually referred to relative humidity?

    So the definitions would say:

    RainI=(Value of rain in inches)
    -- optional

    RainM=(Value of rain in millimeter)
    -- optional

    Humidity=(Relative Humidity Percentage)
    -- optional
    Last edited by pete_c; 9th February 2012 at 04:32 PM.

  5. #15
    Moderator Kevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev_t View Post
    Rain:-

    On the period for reporting, I have always understood that rainfall is reset at midnight
    Fine.. if that is the norm / what people want then so shall it be..
    Clearly you are proposing that there be two 'rains'

    one for metric say rainSI, eng units would be mm

    one for imperial say rainI, the eng units would be inches

    as with all other keys, these would be optional
    The very first post in this thread shows the existing schema and it is self evident that it reports the same sensor data using multiple measurement units defined in the paramater name - I think any extension to this schema should be inkeeping with that. I am not sure SI is inline with other parameter names ... however right it might be.
    Of course this makes the current implementations not meet the newly redefined schema, but if that is what it takes to make progress then so be it
    It's no good getting grouchy about it - if those developers chose to extend an existing schema without concensus or documenting it then that is what will happen. The cause is the very issue you're advocating - adding your own parameters and why people like SandaySoft are right when they say they don't just want to extend without concensus.
    Humidity:-

    the key for this would be humidity

    The eng units would be given to be %

    this key is optional
    Sounds fine
    I don't know what if any other optional keys we might need, these are the ones we are discussing now
    That was why I asked for completeness- anyone have any more whilst we're at it ?
    I would reiterate:-
    "In any case any receiving application should gracefully ignore, ie not break, if it gets keys it does not recognise"
    ... yes... I did respond to this before .. However it is the reason why we now have an ambiguous rain= value as no units were defined and also we could potentially invalidate the existing rain= usage if for example we defined it as always inches or having a measurement value appended to the value e.g. rain=12mm. It doesn't break persay but it does mean that if we used that parameter in a formal definition we may present data in an incompatible form to the existing usage.

    How long is a max size message currently - does anyone know ?

    K

  6. #16
    Moderator Kevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete_c View Post
    What the the "S" in "rainSI" stand for?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_derived_unit

    K

  7. #17
    Automated Home Jr Member pete_c's Avatar
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    Ah, OK that makes sense Kevin; apologies.

  8. #18
    Automated Home Jr Member pete_c's Avatar
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    How long is a max size message currently - does anyone know ?
    No.

    Here are two Cumulus generated xAP messages.

    Code:
    xap-header
    {
    v=12
    hop=1
    uid=FF437500
    class=weather.report
    source=sanday.cumulus.ICS-HST
    }
    weather.report
    {
    UTC=16:39
    DATE=20120209
    WindM=10.0
    WindK=16.1
    WindGustsM=17.0
    WindGustsK=27.4
    WindDirD=197
    WindDirC=S
    TempC=-1.4
    TempF=29.4
    DewC=-5.3
    DewF=22.5
    AirPressure=1026.0
    Rain=0.0
    }
    Code:
    xap-header
    {
    v=12
    hop=1
    uid=FF437500
    class=weather.report
    source=sanday.cumulus.ICS-STORAGE-2
    }
    weather.report
    {
    UTC=16:42
    DATE=20120209
    WindM=2.2
    WindK=3.6
    WindGustsM=5.4
    WindGustsK=8.6
    WindDirD=360
    WindDirC=N
    TempC=2.7
    TempF=36.9
    DewC=-6.2
    DewF=20.9
    AirPressure=1028.0
    Rain=0.0
    }

  9. #19
    Automated Home Sr Member kev_t's Avatar
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    Which brings us to

    weather.report
    {
    UTC=(Time of report in hh:mm format using utc time zone)
    -- mandatory
    DATE=(Date of report in YYYYMMDD format)
    -- mandatory
    WindM=(Value of wind in mph or "Gusty" if gusty)
    -- optional
    WindK=(Value of wind in kph or "Gusty" if gusty)
    -- optional
    WindGustsM=(Value of wind gusts in mph)
    -- optional
    WindGustsK=(Value of wind gusts in kph)
    -- optional
    WindDirC=(Compas heading of wind N|NE|E|SE|S|SW|W|NW)
    -- optional
    WindDirD=(Compas heading of wind in degrees)
    -- optional
    TempC=(Temperature in centigrade)
    -- optional
    TempF=(Temperature in fahrenheit)
    -- optional
    DewC=(Dew point in fahrenheit)
    -- optional
    DewF=(Dew point in fahrenheit)
    -- optional
    RainM=(Rainfall since midnight in mm)
    -- optional
    RainI=(Rainfall since midnight in inches)
    -- optional
    Humidity=(Relative Humidity as %)
    -- optional
    AirPressure=(Air pressure in hPa)
    -- optional
    Cloud=(Overal cloud cover currently only "Clear Skies")
    -- optional
    CloudM.X=(Cloud type and height in miles ie "Overcast at 5.4M. X increments on each cloud layer)
    -- optional
    CloudK.X=(Cloud type and heightin kilometers ie "Overcast at 5.4Km. X increments on each cloud layer)
    -- optional
    Icon=(The name of the picture to use, icon names from kweather www.kde.org. File names below)
    -- optional
    Error=(Download errors either "NoData" if last connection failed or "StationNotFound" if ICAO code isn't valid)
    -- optional
    }

    If we agree on this I will update the wiki

    kevint

  10. #20
    Moderator Kevin's Avatar
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    I have received one email from someone who can't post to AH forum (for some reason) re WindChill - any thoughts - is this an important one Pete, and have you others ?

    Also I don't really like RainM (for mm) because CloudM is miles - however it's already messed up in the existing schema with WindDirC for 'compass' and TempC for centigrade so I think we scuppered that earlier. RainM it is, even though it's wet in the Pennines I've never seen it measured in miles.

    In hindsight I think a metric and/or imperial body would have been better, or appending units to values (and maybe 'period' blocks eg hourly, daily ). Definite scope here for a new schema.

    K

    PS Do people want to include indoor humidity and temperature in a weather schema - I know a lot of weather stations have this built in ?
    Last edited by Kevin; 9th February 2012 at 05:02 PM.

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