Advice needed on new house project.

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  • wyvernp
    Automated Home Lurker
    • Jul 2012
    • 4

    Advice needed on new house project.

    Hi,
    I'm just in the process of buying a new house and have been thinking about home automation and am in the need of some advice.
    So, here's the plan.
    The whole house automation system should be run from a central computer probably running homeseer.
    The front door will be unlocked via a long distance RFID sensor (range about 1-2m) which will activate an electric release mechanism such as this;http://www.electriclock.net/acatalog...-releases.html

    which will be activate by http://proto-pic.co.uk/ethernet-16am...-relay-module/ with a view to also install fail-release versions on the internal doors so I can control access to individual rooms individually.

    Now where I start to get a little confused is the lighting. Now presently I use Lutron Rania dimmers on most of my lights. I would like to keep these as the z-wave/ X-10 etc switches I have seen are hideously ugly. What I would like is simply a hidden module which can turn the lights on, off and dim them. This would be voice controlled via homeseer. Can anyone recommend a suitable product for this purpose?

    Later additions will include a facial recognition doorbell and ANPR to identify and announce the arrival of people whom I program into the system.
    Thanks in advance,
    Wyvern
    Last edited by wyvernp; 3 August 2012, 03:07 PM.
  • toscal
    Moderator
    • Oct 2005
    • 2061

    #2
    Wow those Alpro lock releases are expensive. I paid 55 euros.
    X10 micro modules spring to mind, or use the Insteon Modules . Another HA system is PLCBus, this is similar to UPB in operation.
    Homeseer is very good, but you will need quite a fast PC if you are going to use voice commands.
    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
    Renovation Spain Blog

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    • Wexfordman
      Automated Home Guru
      • Nov 2005
      • 118

      #3
      How reliable is voice control these days? Remember messing about with it ten years ago and gave up, what does it look like now?

      Comment

      • toscal
        Moderator
        • Oct 2005
        • 2061

        #4
        I last tried it about 6 years ago and like you gave up.
        IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
        Renovation Spain Blog

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        • Wexfordman
          Automated Home Guru
          • Nov 2005
          • 118

          #5
          Thanks, Have a couple of mixers and mics that i got from letsautmate gathering dust, was thinking they might be worth dusting down again, but unless things have improved dramaticly, not really worth bothering with!

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          • toscal
            Moderator
            • Oct 2005
            • 2061

            #6
            The biggest problem is still background noise. It might be worth a play. I know of people who have had success using bluetooth headsets, the ones that clip on to your ear.
            IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
            Renovation Spain Blog

            Comment

            • wyvernp
              Automated Home Lurker
              • Jul 2012
              • 4

              #7
              Thanks for the quick reply, I have found some mics but again they're terribly expensive but I guess it may be worth it, first in one room.

              The Voice Tracker™ Array Microphone locates a talker and electronically steers a “listening beam,” like an acoustic searchlight, in that direction. This creates spatial filtering; sounds and reverberation from other parts of the room are not picked up. In addition, digital noise reduction processing removes background noise. This two-stage noise reduction, coupled with the sensitivity […]


              As for the lock release, yeah it is expensive but I don't mind so much on the front door, if I do the internal ones it will be the cheaper £20 ones.

              How fast a PC do you think would do the job, I have a quad core 3.6Ghz AMD rig with 8GB RAM currently as a media center, would that do?

              Comment

              • toscal
                Moderator
                • Oct 2005
                • 2061

                #8
                That should be OK. One thing I did find with Homeseer is that it prefers a PC where thats the only thing running on it. I think Homeseer still do a trial version so you could download that and have a play.
                Its worth going through the teaching phase with the voice recognition.
                IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                Renovation Spain Blog

                Comment

                • wyvernp
                  Automated Home Lurker
                  • Jul 2012
                  • 4

                  #9
                  Originally posted by toscal View Post
                  That should be OK. One thing I did find with Homeseer is that it prefers a PC where thats the only thing running on it. I think Homeseer still do a trial version so you could download that and have a play.
                  Its worth going through the teaching phase with the voice recognition.
                  I'll try and download that, if not i'm sure I can cobble something together from parts I have lying around.

                  I looked into those modules, Insteon look like the ones for me but I guess I'll have wait for the UK ones to be released.

                  On th RFID side can anyone recommend any long(ish) range readers?

                  Comment

                  • toscal
                    Moderator
                    • Oct 2005
                    • 2061

                    #10
                    Have a look at Wavetrend. Also iAutomate has some wavetrend stuff as well as a Homeseer kit.
                    More RFID links.

                    http://www.trossenrobotics.com/c/usb...tags-kits.aspx more a roll your own sort of thing.


                    There are others. I did some test work on RFID products in 2004 the tags we used had the ability to store information. We where using them for asset tracking, location and service history. Problem came when we had about a thousand tags in the same area. Too much interference. Solved by attenuating the antenna, (I actually removed the antenna on the test reader and connected a small piece of copper wire), so the reader could only read the tags at a distant of no more than 30cm, which for us was perfect.
                    Last edited by toscal; 4 August 2012, 12:22 PM.
                    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                    Renovation Spain Blog

                    Comment

                    • Geps
                      Automated Home Guru
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 136

                      #11
                      Your home insurance company may refuse/limit cover if you have that type of lock on the front door....

                      I had the idea once to create an RFID reader that uses ordinary car keys. The circuit and firmware can isn't too bad but it's when you start to house it in a case etc it starts to become abit more involved. Not really a good route to go down now either with more and more cars adopting active tags in keys.

                      Comment

                      • Karam
                        Automated Home Legend
                        • Mar 2005
                        • 863

                        #12
                        Re: Voice recognition - I guess it depends on how its done. We have a voice recognition feature in our IDRATEK Cortex software. Its a feature that is available as part of the basic core license because we feel that its something that is fun but not so reliable for serious use. The underlying technology is SAPI5 which means part of the reliability depends on the SAPI5 recognition engine that you use. There are some free ones such as M. Soft's own but I'm sure better results may be obtained via others suited to a dialect and, as indicated by others, when trained. Getting suitable audio to the speech engine is the next hurdle. In our system audio can be delivered from the microphones in our panel type modules and via the IDRANet audio bus, but it would be possible to use a standard mic routed to the PC. In our past experience the panels perform better because they have automatic gain adjustment and human voice tends to be 'more powerful' than say a TV at subjectively similar loudness level, meaning that voice could be picked up well enough even a few meters away from a given panel. So it maybe that a mic with pre-amplification might work better or indeed it can depend very much on the audio card in the PC itself.

                        Background noise is of course a big problem. There are various ways to mitigate this. Improve the voice to background ratio is an obvious one e.g mic with low gain close to mouth but then you have to carry the mic with you or have it close to hand. Famously remember a demo of a million pound automation project some years back by a well known phone company where a chap with a complete headset commanded his bath to fill up - the sort of thing that gives home automation a bad name . However the use of something like a smart phone mic e.g via Siri (in which case also different voice recognition technology) or otherwise might these days be not so impractical. We found that voice recognition using PC telephony speech engines with audio via a telephone modem was much more reliable - because the bandwidth is limited and the person has a mic next to their mouth. But not really very practical to have to call your PC unless you are already outside the house. And to be honest, by the time you've fiddled with buttons you might as well have just used a touch screen system interface.

                        Another thing is to limit the vocabulary which the recogniser has to understand and choose words that are as distinctive sounding as possible. Ideally recognition would be on all the time just waiting for a key phrase. I haven't kept up with the technology so I don't know how well this works these days but from past experience it wasn't too good, with some engines actually adapting themselves to the background noise such that they didn't recognise you too well next time around.

                        For situations where you need to interact with the automation system (which at IDRATEK we of course are always striving to minimise ) I do think reliable open room voice recognition would be great. I'm sure it'll get there sooner or later but for the time being I guess buttons, touch screens and the like will have to suffice - or maybe someone will tell me otherwise..

                        Comment

                        • wyvernp
                          Automated Home Lurker
                          • Jul 2012
                          • 4

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Geps View Post
                          Your home insurance company may refuse/limit cover if you have that type of lock on the front door....

                          I had the idea once to create an RFID reader that uses ordinary car keys. The circuit and firmware can isn't too bad but it's when you start to house it in a case etc it starts to become abit more involved. Not really a good route to go down now either with more and more cars adopting active tags in keys.
                          That is a very good point, I will make a point of inquiring to see if they will still cover me. I walked around the house the other day and noticed that the front door has a 3 point lock so I may have to think about other ways of achieve this. I also had a play with the homeseer voice recognition software but only with an ordinary mic, fairly impressed but I may look into an iphone controlled setup instead.

                          Comment

                          • chris_j_hunter
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Dec 2007
                            • 1713

                            #14
                            >voice recognition ... background noise ... limit the vocabulary ... waiting for a key phrase ...

                            putting all those points together, how about doing what people do - ie: give it a name & use it as the key phrase, to both make people speak more deliberately & to allow the computer a better chance of identifying when it needs to be alert - better chance of working & more efficient ! ?
                            Our self-build - going further with HA...

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                            • Vangelis
                              Automated Home Guru
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 131

                              #15
                              I started looking at electronic door locks, and although the 'Night Latch' devices are used a lot on commercial properties, I never liked the fact there was a 'loose' feel to the locking mech, in that the door would move lightly against the lock even when locked. So I started looking at Solenoid bolts as a more secure option, but with a key override (seeing as this is the main point of entry to the house!!)

                              our entire range of access control systems & electric locks for better security. Find door & gate access control systems, including DDA .


                              I'd be interested in how you get on with the RFID, as with Active RFID you usually need a power source in the tag to achieve the range - most car systems that have a 'comfort opening/start' mode charge the keyfob, when in situ in the ignition, to get round the 'dead battery' scenario.

                              On the lighting front - if it's hidden Z-Wave units to control the lights - check out...



                              Haven't had a play with these yet, but am planning to use my Comfort system to control them now that the new Zwave module allows me to check status of the lighting.
                              Last edited by Vangelis; 17 August 2012, 09:52 AM.

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