LED Dimming

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  • NeilFuller
    Automated Home Lurker
    • Oct 2004
    • 2

    LED Dimming

    First, it looks like this is the first post for nearly a year - Surely it can't be _that_ quiet!?

    Re the subject of the post - Same old chestnut. . . . .

    Does anyone have any recommendations for LED driver/lamp combinations that will work with CBus?

    I have CBus, as a retrofit, throughout the first floor of our house but that was done a few years ago and the fittings are all halogen.

    I'm about the redecorate much of the ground floor and an extension and would like to use LED fittings and I want them to be dimmable.

    However, from a bit of googling, it would seem to be a minefield of which lamps work with which drivers and much of the experimentation seems to relate to Oz.

    So, can anyone recommend any drivers and lamps that are currently available (as of Oct 2012) that will work with CBus?

    Many thanks

    Regards

    Neil
  • toscal
    Moderator
    • Oct 2005
    • 2061

    #2
    Can't comment on CBus directly. But can CBus output a 0-10V control signal. If it can then you can use a 0-10V RGB Driver/dimmer. This can either be used as an RGB controller when using RGB LED Strips, or as a three channel dimmer for 12V MR16 LED bulbs, or Single colour strips. By using 2 of the channels you could even use the new colour temp change strips (essentially a single strip with both warm and cold white leds). If CBus has a DMX gateway then there are a variety of DMX based LED dimmers/drivers.
    We have had some success with Idratek and our 0-10V dimmers and also our GU10 bulbs on an Idratek dimmer module. So if CBus has a dimming module then the GU10 may work. What I would do is check the min load for the dimmer module for CBus, some systems have a min load, some don't and others can be programmed (like Lutron).
    As a general note on LED dimming, complete 0 to 100% brightness tends not to happen with the bulbs, its more like 20% to 100%. The strips can be 0-100% but this depends on the control software and how the 0-10V signal is implemented.
    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
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    Comment

    • SiliconPixel
      Automated Home Sr Member
      • May 2007
      • 52

      #3
      Hi Neil,

      Did you get anywhere with this? I just posted a nearly identical post to the mailing list looking for similar drivers/LED's!

      Cheers,

      Paul.

      Comment

      • 21stCenturyElec
        Automated Home Jr Member
        • Jan 2013
        • 26

        #4
        We work a lot with C-Bus and have a number of LED solutions that work with the leading edge dimmers, we have tested various types, lamps and driver/LED combo.

        If your still looking please PM me and I'll see how we can help

        Comment

        • MichaelD
          Automated Home Guru
          • Mar 2006
          • 167

          #5
          I've been looking at the new Philips Master GU10 6W dimming LEDs, it seems like we have finally reached a point where there are dimming downlighters that match the brightness of halogen, without that awful sticking-out lamp look.

          The new 6w lamps match the brightness of their previous 7w lamps, but without the bulk, and I believe that the previous 7w lamps were good with C-Bus dimmers. Price is about £20 each, so I thought I'd delay until they are more affordable. There must be a point where savings of electricity exceed savings by waiting whilst the price drops, but it just seems too geeky to work it out.

          Would be interested in any experience with these, or any alternatives

          Comment

          • 21stCenturyElec
            Automated Home Jr Member
            • Jan 2013
            • 26

            #6
            MichaelD we have a lamp that works perfectly at a lower price than that with the same output, it will dim 0-100% there is no sudden shut off or flicker, please feel free send a PM with the qty you are thinking about.

            Ian

            Comment

            • b2gman
              Automated Home Lurker
              • Jan 2013
              • 3

              #7
              Originally posted by 21stCenturyElec View Post
              MichaelD we have a lamp that works perfectly at a lower price than that with the same output, it will dim 0-100% there is no sudden shut off or flicker, please feel free send a PM with the qty you are thinking about.

              Ian
              Id be imterested in some of those 0-100% dimmable LED lamps too please 21stCenturyElec - can you post deails please?

              Comment

              • 21stCenturyElec
                Automated Home Jr Member
                • Jan 2013
                • 26

                #8
                Originally posted by b2gman View Post
                Id be imterested in some of those 0-100% dimmable LED lamps too please 21stCenturyElec - can you post deails please?
                What details did you need? they are a 6W GU10 lamp and come in various Kelvins. What sort of qty are you looking for etc?

                Comment

                • b2gman
                  Automated Home Lurker
                  • Jan 2013
                  • 3

                  #9
                  Originally posted by 21stCenturyElec View Post
                  What details did you need? they are a 6W GU10 lamp and come in various Kelvins. What sort of qty are you looking for etc?
                  Hi Im looking for around 60 bulbs, and I want a natural looking daylight, not a warm light.

                  I#d need to buy just one first to test it out as I have yet to find a LED bulb that will work properly with my LD11 X10 dim rail dimmers.

                  Comment

                  • SiliconPixel
                    Automated Home Sr Member
                    • May 2007
                    • 52

                    #10
                    Originally posted by 21stCenturyElec View Post
                    What details did you need? they are a 6W GU10 lamp and come in various Kelvins. What sort of qty are you looking for etc?
                    I'm just about to order a load of LED lamps from Australia - that work with CBus. They now have a 8W lamp in warm white 3000K - 0-100% dimming, no flicker, jumping in levels etc like some others I've tried.

                    Maybe you can post a link to your lamps?

                    Comment

                    • MichaelD
                      Automated Home Guru
                      • Mar 2006
                      • 167

                      #11
                      Just bought and installed my first set of GU10 LED downlighters. I went for Philips 'PerfectFit' 6W 3000k 40degree ones, and replaced a bank of 4 x 50w halogen downlighters.

                      These things are incredibly white and bright. I'd expected the 3000k ones to be a bit yellower than the halogens, which I'd read are 3100k, but they are actually much whiter, so I can't imagine what the 4000k ones must look like, some kind of dazzling blue-white I guess. Perhaps its the quality of the light, but the LEDs seem brighter, and really bounce light off the white Corian worktop in our kitchen, and seem to give much crisper shadows, probably because the light comes from a single small source.

                      Dimming with C-Bus2 1A dimmer is very similar to the halogens, I left a halogen in one fitting to compare them, and the LED dims down to almost exactly the same point as the halogen before it goes off, but remains white rather than going very yellow as the halogen does. No problem using 4 on a circuit, no dim light showing when they are switched off, which had been a worry.

                      I 'd thought I'd just replace one bank of halogens, and use up the displaced halogen bulbs as in the other bank as needed, but I love the quality of the light they give off, so have ordered a set for the other bank.

                      They are expensive, don't know if the business case really stacks up, but with a bit of 'man maths', these things are a good buy, I paid about £15 each with postage from ebay. No doubt they will be £5 in a couple of years, but having tried them, I had to buy more. Now, about the ones in the hall ....

                      Comment

                      • 21stCenturyElec
                        Automated Home Jr Member
                        • Jan 2013
                        • 26

                        #12
                        We have tested the Megaman 6W dimmable with the 1A dimmer and they are perfect, we set up 8 on a rig with the full dim range 0-100 and no flicker. We are going to try 12 next when we get a chance.

                        They cost about £10 each.

                        We have also been looking into importing direct from the manufacturer the same LED's that are available on eBay by an Australian supplier but they would ship here at around the same price and its hard to gauge the interest, we have tested them and they are very bright!!!!

                        Ian

                        Comment

                        • blacky7
                          Automated Home Jr Member
                          • Nov 2011
                          • 14

                          #13
                          Originally posted by toscal View Post
                          Can't comment on CBus directly. But can CBus output a 0-10V control signal. If it can then you can use a 0-10V RGB Driver/dimmer. This can either be used as an RGB controller when using RGB LED Strips, or as a three channel dimmer for 12V MR16 LED bulbs, or Single colour strips. By using 2 of the channels you could even use the new colour temp change strips (essentially a single strip with both warm and cold white leds). If CBus has a DMX gateway then there are a variety of DMX based LED dimmers/drivers.
                          We have had some success with Idratek and our 0-10V dimmers and also our GU10 bulbs on an Idratek dimmer module. So if CBus has a dimming module then the GU10 may work. What I would do is check the min load for the dimmer module for CBus, some systems have a min load, some don't and others can be programmed (like Lutron).
                          As a general note on LED dimming, complete 0 to 100% brightness tends not to happen with the bulbs, its more like 20% to 100%. The strips can be 0-100% but this depends on the control software and how the 0-10V signal is implemented.
                          Toscal's suggested LED dimming ideas work fine on your CBus networks for LED control and here are the required C-Bus modules that can:

                          1. Output 0-10V, being the C-Bus analogue output module (L5504AMP) to run third party 0-10V RGB/RGBW LED drivers

                          2. Output DMX, being the C-Bus DMX gateway module (5500DMX) to interface to DMX equipment / DMX LED drivers

                          3. Output DALI, being the C-Bus Dali Gateway module (5502DAL) to interface to DALI controlled ballasts/ DALI LED Drivers.

                          4. Output Leading Edge Dimming, being the C-Bus 8 Channel Dimmers L5508D1A to run 220v/240v LED controllers made to be leading edge dimmed. Great if you can get away with these as they have twice the dimmer density of 'Universal Dimmers' using less enclosure space. Also is the dimmer most people have currently dimming their Halogens in a retrofit situation.

                          5. Output Universal Dimming, being the C-Bus 4 Channel Universal Dimmer L55082U which can run a larger group of 220v/240v LED controllers, electronic transformers etc. The universal dimmer is the safest dimmer alternative as it detects the load type and selects leading or trailing edge as required (and can also control small motors like exhaust fans / ceiling etc). Downside is only 4 dimmer channels per full width 12 module wide DIN rail slot chewing up enclosures quickly.

                          All the best,

                          Blacky7
                          Last edited by blacky7; 1 April 2013, 01:14 AM.
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