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Thread: Z-Wave timer/roomstat?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimguy View Post
    @Martyn: Any luck with your Z-Wave solution? What have you gone for in the Z-Wave range?
    Nothing so far! I *really* want the same functionality that I currently have - each room has a separate Thermostat that can be programmed over 7 days with 2 on/off times per day with 2 set-point temperatures. And each Thermostat can control one or more radiator valve. And each Thermostat reports back to the boiler control - the boiler control only turns on the boiler if 1 or more Thermostat says there is a need for heat. And then the HA control layer over the top.

    I want a lot don't I?

    The closest I think I can get with Z-Wave is with StellaZ radiator valves, Secure LCD thermostats for the local set-point temperature, a Secure Boiler receiver to interlock the boiler and a MiCasaVerde Vera to do all the logic / zone time programming. But that might work out a bit of an expensive solution. I could forego the Secure LCD thermostats, but then I wouldn't have local override and display of set-point & temperature. I'm probably going to go this route since I already have a Vera.

    The StellaZ are good value so I can probably stretch to all 10 radiators in one go and maybe do a single Secure LCD thermostat upstairs and downstairs as in interim solution, adding one per room over a period of time. I also found that the StellaZ can be controlled in "direct" mode - you can tell them exactly what % to open, as opposed to just controlling the set-point - I just need to work out how to do that on a Vera :-) This would be great and allow really fine-grained control of the heating based on *my* logic as opposed to what the TRV thinks it needs to do.

    Whichever way I go, I'm going to be attacking it at the end of this Winter and will have it ready for use next Winter :-)
    Martyn Wendon
    Vesternet
    Check out my Blog!

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyn.wendon View Post
    I could forego the Secure LCD thermostats, but then I wouldn't have local override and display of set-point & temperature.
    Other than on Smartphone/tablet of course. There does seem to be shortage of affordable Z-Wave thermostats. Perhaps using RFXCom, you can use a non-Z-wave thermostat?

    Quote Originally Posted by martyn.wendon View Post
    The StellaZ are good value so I can probably stretch to all 10 radiators in one go and maybe do a single Secure LCD thermostat upstairs and downstairs as in interim solution, adding one per room over a period of time.
    I am not sure why the TRVs for Z-Wave are so expensive. Pegler, Technoline, and others seem to be able to make RF based TRVs for half the price of those Z-Wave options currently available, but sadly not for Z-wave.

  3. #13
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    I'm wondering whether the eQ-3 Max! System (also available from Conrad) would serve your purposes. It seems to represent excellent value -

    TRVs - 24.99
    Window sensors 16.99 (causes TRV to shut down if window opens)
    Room Stat - 25.99

    The only "problem" seems to be that there is no "native" boiler control in the system - although I'm confident that you could use A N Other - and would welcome any ideas as to how to go about this.
    Regards,


    Ian

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatterBits View Post
    I'm wondering whether the eQ-3 Max! System (also available from Conrad) would serve your purposes. It seems to represent excellent value -

    TRVs - 24.99
    Window sensors 16.99 (causes TRV to shut down if window opens)
    Room Stat - 25.99

    The only "problem" seems to be that there is no "native" boiler control in the system - although I'm confident that you could use A N Other - and would welcome any ideas as to how to go about this.
    I have recently bought some Pegler iTemp TRVs which are very similar to the eQ-3 Max! ones, but they install right-way up on UK radiators (eQ-3 MAx! systems are designed for the European style radiators and so the display is upside down when installed on a UK radiator). They are available for about 20 and there are deals available for multi-buys - I picked up 8 of them for 120.
    They work really well, but there does not appear to be any way to remotely control them, other than from their own window sensor or remote control, which are paired with the TRV. They also don't have a boiler switching capability. They may well be compatible with the eQ-3 Max! Cube LAN Gateway, as the remote for them and other Pegler supplied compatible devices are branded as eQ-3 Max!.

    For my house, I am looking at a solution that uses a combination of these iTemp TRVs in rooms that do not need to be heated individually, such as bathrooms and kitchen (i.e. where heat can be turned off by these TRVs for most of the time), and then possibly a z-wave system with TRV's or Room thermostats in rooms that need heating (i.e. rooms that are likely to be used for longer periods whilst the rest of the house is not heated), such as my office and the living room. The rooms with the iTemp TRVs would then be "piggy-backing" off the other rooms which do have the ability to turn the boiler on and so will need to only have heating on whilst the heating is on for one of the z-wave controlled rooms.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimguy View Post
    I have recently bought some Pegler iTemp TRVs which are very similar to the eQ-3 Max! ones, but they install right-way up on UK radiators (eQ-3 MAx! systems are designed for the European style radiators and so the display is upside down when installed on a UK radiator). They are available for about 20 and there are deals available for multi-buys - I picked up 8 of them for 120.
    They work really well, but there does not appear to be any way to remotely control them, other than from their own window sensor or remote control, which are paired with the TRV. They also don't have a boiler switching capability. They may well be compatible with the eQ-3 Max! Cube LAN Gateway, as the remote for them and other Pegler supplied compatible devices are branded as eQ-3 Max!.

    For my house, I am looking at a solution that uses a combination of these iTemp TRVs in rooms that do not need to be heated individually, such as bathrooms and kitchen (i.e. where heat can be turned off by these TRVs for most of the time), and then possibly a z-wave system with TRV's or Room thermostats in rooms that need heating (i.e. rooms that are likely to be used for longer periods whilst the rest of the house is not heated), such as my office and the living room. The rooms with the iTemp TRVs would then be "piggy-backing" off the other rooms which do have the ability to turn the boiler on and so will need to only have heating on whilst the heating is on for one of the z-wave controlled rooms.
    Interesting, I've not seen the Pegler stuff before and it certainly seems cheap enough to take a punt at. There's a press release at http://www.pegleryorkshire.co.uk/EN/...empaccessories that seems to suggest there's a USB stick available and PC software for setting schedules etc, but it's not clear if that extends to "complete" remote control. Might be worth looking at FHEM and the likes to see if it is compatible in any way.

    But for me, anything that's non-two way communication isn't going to fly :-( The ELV / Conrad / HouseHeat FS20 based stuff I've been using for a number of years is "ok" but if and when I upgrade it will definitely be to something that has two-way communication. The new LightwaveRF heating stuff looks tempting, but I just heard it's been pushed back another "few months" (it's been "coming soon" for over a year now!) and the recent price hike for LightwaveRF stuff is pushing it up amongst better technologies like Z-Wave and Insteon (in my opinion).

    So as it stands, I'm pretty much sold on the Secure Thermostats for room control, with either the StellaZ or Danfoss valve controls for the radiators (the new Danfoss LC-13 recently released sorts out some reliability issues) and the Secure Receiver for interlocking the Boiler. All controlled by my Vera Z-Wave controller in theory!


    Martyn
    Martyn Wendon
    Vesternet
    Check out my Blog!

  6. #16
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    Anyone know of any TRVs like the Stella Z ones but with manual controls on them? I really do want a z-wave TRV which can be controlled from both a controller and manually....the Danfoss stuff is there but I don't think they function completely as they should with z-wave commands (unlike the Stella Z's) right?

    Worth waiting to see?

    I don't really want to use an alternative protocol so I can have manual control, if I were to I'd likely punt for those Pegler i30 TRVs assuming I could make some things happen remotely using the RFXCOM stuff....

  7. #17
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    I don't think such a thing exists, certainly I've looked and only found Stella-Z and Danfoss.

    Personally I much prefer the idea of an application for it. I definitely see the benefit of hard controls for things (I'm putting in limited hard button controls of Sonos in my project) but if that involves bending over a radiator in a corner of a room squinting at the LCD...

    I'm also finding the temperature sensing of the TRVs (Stella-Zs) a little off. Works fine in some rooms but in some cases (either lack of airflow or I think some just seem to conduct more heat) the TRV is getting warm and shutting off long before the room itself gets to the right temperature. My solution is to go for Fibaro temp/PIR sensors as I'd like to build some presence / motion detection in and those give me that plus a more reliable remote temperature reading.

    However you could go for the Horstmann temperature sensors that also have manual controls on them (and displays). Not a cheap choice but should be better both for ergonomics and function than a TRV with buttons on it.

  8. #18
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    Yeah I guess you could set the temps a little higher to give enough "buffer" for the room to warm up but that's far from ideal

    So, what I am understanding from this is that it's probably not the best using thermostats in the valves to determine on/off control and therefore having controls on them would be pretty pointless too...Stella Z's with a seperate PIR/temp sensor in the longer term it is then I think...and just control all through the 'puter or a tablet

    Do the stella valves come with a remote so they can be setup without any other equipment or is it expected to have a controller? Just wondering about the short term versus longer term setup

    edit: Wow! Is uk automation the only place to buy these things from in the UK? They don't have enough stock to purchase online and their prices aren't all that nice! 650 to get the TRVs, Sensors and a Z-Stick that I need! Can I expect any discounts from them? Shame those Pegler valves don't cut it!!
    Last edited by kaivalagi; 24th November 2014 at 02:28 PM.

  9. #19
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    No remote included so need some kind of controller. You might be able to link them all to a Horstmann wall thermostat as an interim measure, but I'm not 100%. Also do bear in mind that battery powered devices don't create a z-wave mesh, so you need everything in range of the controller unless you have other hard wired z-wave devices.

    It is pricey!! I was contemplating doing a bulk order of Stella-Zs and wall thermostats at one point. Vesternet.com have most z-wave stuff available, good customer care and did offer a discount when I was looking at putting in a bulk order (over 1k, but I ended up going in stages). Doesn't hurt to e-mail people and ask!

  10. #20
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    Thanks, yeah, I just came across the Vesternet site, I will ask them about buying in bulk, they have limited stock too

    I'm assuming once I look to install z-wave lighting I'll have "hard wired" z-wave devices in amongst everything? The light switches will I assume still get wired into the switching circuit I have and if I use LED bulbs that will give mood and dimmer functionality too?

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