Heat Genius

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  • biccies
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • Nov 2012
    • 39

    Heat Genius

    Hi all,
    I've just seen the article on the frontpage about 'Heat Genius' http://www.wordpress-1219309-4387497...th-z-wave.html
    I'm currently waiting for Honeywell's new EvoHome but Heat Genius seems to do all that and already has an API written and looks to be Z-Wave support!!
    Where did these guys come from? I haven't heard of it until just now- seems like it may be too good.

    What's your thoughts?
  • zimguy
    Automated Home Lurker
    • Nov 2013
    • 6

    #2
    It does sound like an interesting option, but I wonder how well tested the system is. There is more information on their website: https://heatgenius.net/

    The TRV's look a lot like the Danfoss Living Connect Z Z-Wave Radiator Thermostat: http://www.wordpress-1219309-4387497...m-danfoss.html.

    Comment

    • biccies
      Automated Home Jr Member
      • Nov 2012
      • 39

      #3
      I think they are those Danfoss TRVs.

      Comment

      • martyn.wendon
        Automated Home Jr Member
        • Dec 2013
        • 41

        #4
        Maybe I'm missing the point, but what's the benefit of this system over say a Z-Wave controller like a MiCasaVerde Vera with the same Danfoss TRVs and Secure Thermostat / Boiler Receiver?

        Also, the Danfoss TRVs don't report the local room temperature back to the controller as far as I'm aware, so they're not a good choice if you like to log / graph that sort of data. But it looks like the PIR being used is one of the new Philio units, which do have temperature reporting in them.

        Other than the software on the HeatGenius controller being specific to heating control, I'm not sure why you'd go for something like this that's based on Z-Wave but limited to just heating?
        Martyn Wendon
        Vesternet
        Check out my Blog!

        Comment

        • biccies
          Automated Home Jr Member
          • Nov 2012
          • 39

          #5
          martyn.wendon, that's a good point. It seems that it's basically a Z-Wave controller and isn't really doing anything different- other than perhaps a dedicated mobile app for heating. It's obviously using the Z-Wave protocol.

          Comment

          • zimguy
            Automated Home Lurker
            • Nov 2013
            • 6

            #6
            It is definitely Z-Wave based. I guess the advantage of this system over a full z_wave system is simplicity, if all you want is heating control. Their scheduling capabilities and mobile phone apps look pretty good and user friendly. I have been in touch with them and they have been very quick and helpful with information on their system.

            Comment

            • poci-master
              Automated Home Lurker
              • Jan 2014
              • 1

              #7
              Yep, it is Z-wave.
              Have asked the company A LOT of questions about this.
              As a dedicated system you would hope it was more stable.
              I am considering installing it in a student rental property where currently the heating is left on 24/7.

              It concerns me slightly as it is the only system that currently takes into account room occupancy and is relatively untested.
              Homeplugs need to be placed around the house as repeaters - which a tenant may decide to remove!
              Also the TRV and motion sensor are battery driven - tenants like batteries! :-) (perhaps I need better tenants!).

              But it learns and predicts heating needs. My gut instinct is it will work to some extent but z-wave is somewhat unreliable in my experience.
              A tenant won't forgive me if their heating hasn't come on because some z-wave node didn't communicate.

              I want one of you guys to buy it for your own home and 'test' it for me!!! :-)

              Comment

              • lloydh
                Automated Home Lurker
                • Jan 2014
                • 4

                #8
                Salus have brought out a new automated heating control system out as well.

                Comment

                • martyn.wendon
                  Automated Home Jr Member
                  • Dec 2013
                  • 41

                  #9
                  Originally posted by poci-master View Post
                  It concerns me slightly as it is the only system that currently takes into account room occupancy and is relatively untested.
                  Homeplugs need to be placed around the house as repeaters - which a tenant may decide to remove!
                  Also the TRV and motion sensor are battery driven - tenants like batteries! :-) (perhaps I need better tenants!).

                  But it learns and predicts heating needs. My gut instinct is it will work to some extent but z-wave is somewhat unreliable in my experience.
                  A tenant won't forgive me if their heating hasn't come on because some z-wave node didn't communicate.
                  Presence detection / room occupancy is a bit of a holy grail when it comes to HA - many of us have tried and failed over the years to get this working with any success! Typically it's trivial to track motion in / out of a room, the difficulty is when people sit down and watch TV for example - no motion doesn't mean that there's nobody there!

                  Most of these solutions end up being battery driven to make for easy self-install and retro-fitting - I'd hate to have to run cables to every radiator / thermostat point! With a decent Z-Wave controller you can get notifications of low or removed batteries :-)

                  I'm interested to know why you've found Z-Wave to be unreliable? In my experience a well set-up Z-Wave system with it's mesh networking is about as reliable as it gets when compared to similar technologies / systems.
                  Martyn Wendon
                  Vesternet
                  Check out my Blog!

                  Comment

                  • zimguy
                    Automated Home Lurker
                    • Nov 2013
                    • 6

                    #10
                    Originally posted by lloydh View Post
                    Salus have brought out a new automated heating control system out as well.

                    http://www.salus-tech.com/products/thermostat/it500bm/
                    Their panel looks very nice, but unfortunately, it is a "whole house" solution, rather than zoned.

                    Comment

                    • lloydh
                      Automated Home Lurker
                      • Jan 2014
                      • 4

                      #11
                      Thats the big problem - the infrared panel heaters need to be controlled independently but we would like to be able to control them centrally. The largest is only 850watts but struggling to find a zoned solution.

                      the panels are here http://www.infraredpanelheaters.com

                      Currently they are each controlled with individual stats. although one or two can be wired to one stat to reduce the zones, it would be better to control each room at least.

                      Comment

                      • Hot
                        Automated Home Sr Member
                        • Oct 2014
                        • 50

                        #12
                        Heat Genius - Here are the facts

                        I would like to tell you a little bit about my experience of using Heat Genius Smart Intelligent Heating Controls and I would also like to educate you a little bit about how Heat Genius works.

                        Before I continue any further I would like say that if you are wondering how well tested the Heat Genius system is. Heat Genius do have their own in-house test facilities to rigorously test their equipment and they also have access to independent third party test facilities.

                        I have written few articles and an installation review but my role here is totally on my own accord. I like what I have experienced since I bought into the Heat Genius world and I will do my utmost to educate and convert as many of you about its merit.

                        Heat Genius have a program of Beta testers, of which I am admittedly just one of many. The Heat Genius test their hardware and software just as well as any other manufacturer out there and the reliability of their systems is exemplary.

                        Presence detection/ room occupancy used to be like trying to find the elusive holy grail but Heat Genius have succeeded where Honeywell Evohome and Nest and many other well established Home Automation (HA) companies and indeed all other Intelligent Heating Control manufacturers did not manage before them. Yes, indeed Heat Genius were the first to create a very slick, fully automatic and accurate presence detection/ room occupancy algorithm that they call FOOTPRINT and the cool thing about them is that they are British.

                        By using the rooms sensors, the Heat Genius system learns when the room is used and uses this to predict when to next heat the room. This also works on a 7-day schedule, so it will heat those days when you are at work differently to those you spend in front of the TV or your computer. By predicting when the room is used, Heat Genius will call on the boiler and open the radiator valves to heat the room up for when you normally start to use it. When you no longer normally use the room, the heating will shut off in this room, saving you energy.

                        If, however you use the rooms outside of the normal pattern the Heat Genius will react to you and your lifestyle even if it changes. If this is just a one off, then Heat Genius will react to your presence and switch the heating on once you have been in the room for a couple minutes. This allows you to pass through rooms without setting your heating to ON for those rooms. Once you then leave the room, the heating will turn OFF to save you money. If you repeat this change, Heat Genius will realise your pattern has changed and will change and adapt to your behaviour patterns. Just like Timer mode, you can set an AWAY temperature, so that the rooms don’t cool down too far, meaning your rooms will be warm for when you return.

                        What about at night, I don’t want the heating on every time I roll over! FOOTPRINT mode has separate settings for night time, allowing you to set a cooler temperature to be comfortable and to turn the presence detection off. You set when you want these settings to start and stop and the temperature, so it matches in with your lifestyle.

                        There are 3 settings in FOOTPRINT so that it works the way you want. The first is Super-Eco and the heating will only come on in a room if it is currently being used. This saves the most energy, but rooms will feel cold when you first walk into them. The Genius Hub will be reactive and will not bring the heating on before you get home. The second is Eco which is the standard FOOTPRINT setting, which learns when you use the the rooms and heat these up at expected times so the room is warm for when you use it. The third setting is Comfort and this is where Heat Genius will learn when you use rooms and if there are short periods of time when you are not in the room, the heating will stay on until it is sure that the room is no longer in use. This saves the least amount of energy but will be the most comfortable.

                        As for the difficulty in sensing when people sit down and watch TV for example - no motion doesn't mean that there's nobody there! This scenario has also been cleverly accounted for.

                        Heat Genius uses battery driven LC13 TRVs and before you say that they are made by Danfoss and other Heating Control Manufacturers have been struggling to communicate accurately with the Living Connect TRV's, this is not true for Heat Genius. The LC13 is as reliably as it can get - the latest version the LC13 just goes on doing its job beautifully and you can forget about it being there. If you are worried about how long the batteries last, please believe me when I say: Don't worry about the batteries - they will last a long, long time and the cost of replacing batteries every 2-3 years is negligible in comparison to the cost of installing hard-wired TRV's and sensors, but as the Heat Genius has excellent user interface you can easily see at a glance the status or the condition of every battery that is used in your Heat Genius Z-wave installation.

                        I noticed that one of you mentioned that the Heat Genius needed Homeplugs or Smart Plugs as I would rather call them around the house. The answer to this is yes but... you just don't plug them in willy-nilly and without a direction or planning or just haphazardly in the nearest 13 amps power socket. The Smart Plugs are Z-wave signal boosters and they strengthen the signal and reduce the Z-Wave mesh size and provide an alternative connection point for the Z-Wave devices. They can also boost the signal over longer distances or assist in getting the signal through unusually thick walls. For the ones of you who have not used Smart Plugs before a typical installation will only require two Smart Plugs and one is plugged into a 13 amp power plug as near to where the Heat Genius Hub is located and the other one should be plugged as near as possible to the Boiler Controller.

                        My own installation has the Heat Genius Hub located inside a locked cabinet near my Router and it is hidden out of sight totally and at the gas boiler end my Boiler Controller is located in another cabinet with a roller shutter door that is located in my kitchen. Again everything is neatly hidden out of sight. I do have two other Smart Plugs connected but I only added them after I had made sure the original two did provide all the necessary signal I needed to make a reliable connection. So why did I add more Smart Plugs? - the old Murphy's law came into my mind: "Anything that can go wrong will eventually go wrong." So to be sure to be sure I added two more Smart Plugs upstairs, one in my study and one in my guest-room.

                        For the ones of you who are pondering if a Z-Wave is unreliable, I say this by repeating the words of Martyn Wendon from Vesternet: "in my experience a well set-up Z-Wave system with it's mesh networking is about as reliable as it gets when compared to similar technologies/ systems." Before I finish here I would like to clear up two points:

                        I would like to try to answer some of the misunderstanding about how Heat Genius interacts with the LC13 Thermostat Valve Controller (TRV). In its standard form the LC13 operates as a semi-slave to the Heat Genius Hub. The LC13 does communicate two ways - it reports back its condition i.e. battery condition or if it has to temporarily shut down, because of sudden drop in temperature (0.5 C drop over 3 minutes) but it also can receive commands for a new heating SETPOINT (the temperature at which the radiator is On/Off) from the Heat Genius Hub.

                        The LC13 can operate as an autonomous and is a very smart TRV that can operate as a standalone device in the event it has to suddenly shut down because of a window or because a door that has been left open for too long (long enough to have affect on room temperature) or in the event of the Z-Wave mesh network going down (Murphy's Law). In the event of the Z-Wave going down or the Heat Genius Hub not working the LC13 will operate like a traditional Danfoss TRV's but with all of its built in intelligence intact so it is a great fall-back feature.

                        It's not the LC13 TRVs that controls what the temperature should be in the room. It is the tiny Philio 3 in 1 Sensor (Motion, Illumination, Temperature). This rather small but highly accurate Temperature room sensor measures the temperature and any movement in the room. It is this sensor that provides the necessary communication in order to accurately control the temperature inside each Zone or a room.

                        P.S.
                        Heat Genius is not going to be limiting themselves to just heating. They have cleverly written an API to integrate with other Z-Wave systems and they are currently in active discussions with potential partners. If you decide to buy a Heat Genius system anyway, you'll receive access to the API as soon as it's released. Heat Genius has won many comparison awards. Over the last few months Heat Genius has taken the UK market by storm and because of their uniqueness they have been rated as the leading Smart Intelligent Heating Control manufacturer in the UK.
                        Last edited by Hot; 20 October 2014, 02:26 AM. Reason: Text Correction
                        I am totally independent writer and my writing is not skewed in any way by receiving payment for my writing. I reduce my gas bills by using Heat Genius Smart Intelligent Heating Controls with more efficient Column radiators.

                        Comment

                        • Hot
                          Automated Home Sr Member
                          • Oct 2014
                          • 50

                          #13
                          Heat Genius - Charting Capabilities

                          Heat Genius has powerful charting capabilities - any recorded data is stored offline on a system server and the information presented by the server software or any Heat Genius Mobile App at the moment is by a Line Chart. Different colours are used to distinct between different data but the charts information is instantly recognisable. This module is being extensively improved and I am reliably informed will offer many more smart features and different types of charts but lets wait and see what the future holds.

                          My heating system records my heating and occupancy patterns and temperatures, so I can see changes in the use and work out any potential energy savings for each room. For me it is important to be able to see when and how long each Zone or room is used. This can be seen in multiple blocks of 15 minutes. One function of the charts that I treasure is how the chart shows when the system comes on or is switched off.

                          At any point I can access my Heat Genius historical heating graphs, which show me the target and actual temperature in each of my Zones or my rooms. I can use these graphs to see what temperatures my Zones or rooms reach at different parts of the day or week.

                          I can choose from any of my Zones or rooms and the Heat Genius Charting module allows me to customise how many days the graph displays, based on a starting point of my choice. Currently my charts can be viewed over a period of 1 day, 2 days or a week. I can instantly access all my stored data and I am able to analyse from the first day the heating system was commissioned. I can do this analysis using a PC (Desk Top or Lap Top and Android or iOS mobile devices.

                          As I also have multiple Zone or rooms sensors, I can see how my Heat Genius Intelligent FOOTPRINT mode is mirroring my Zones or room use pattern, or how accurate my timer predictions are compared with when I really do use the rooms. This allows me to make more accurate ‘heating periods’, saving me money by not heating parts of my home we aren't using and increasing our comfort as the system will only heat the rooms when we need them.

                          I wrote a Review of the installation of my Heat Genius system not that long ago and I think you will find my Review interesting:


                          If there is something you want to ask me feel free to do so.
                          Last edited by Hot; 15 October 2014, 01:44 PM. Reason: Repairing broken HTML link and added Title
                          I am totally independent writer and my writing is not skewed in any way by receiving payment for my writing. I reduce my gas bills by using Heat Genius Smart Intelligent Heating Controls with more efficient Column radiators.

                          Comment

                          • steveing
                            Automated Home Lurker
                            • May 2014
                            • 4

                            #14
                            Hi

                            I have just had the system installed last week but cannot see anywhere on the app where it shows you the state of the battery's in the LC13 can you tell me where that info is

                            Thanks

                            Comment

                            • jdenver
                              Automated Home Lurker
                              • Oct 2014
                              • 6

                              #15
                              Cant get the link to work 'hot' above

                              Comment

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