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Thread: HR92s driving me nuts

  1. #21
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    To be honest I had not realised it occurs twice until looking through the menus this morning! Once as the overall option in the main menu and other time under individual zones.

  2. #22
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    I think that there is an important point here for the Evohome Technical Team. Most people who buy Evohome will use an installer. Few will sit down with the customer and discuss the various parameters in the installation menu. We are all finding out things by trial and error. In my view, there needs to a more detailed user's technical manual that customers can refer to when issues such as the above come up. I confess that I have learned something today.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenGus View Post
    I think that there is an important point here for the Evohome Technical Team. Most people who buy Evohome will use an installer. Few will sit down with the customer and discuss the various parameters in the installation menu. We are all finding out things by trial and error. In my view, there needs to a more detailed user's technical manual that customers can refer to when issues such as the above come up. I confess that I have learned something today.
    Yes, I picked my installer from the list on the Honeywell website but got the impression that he had fitted few, if any of the Evohome systems (in fact he tried to talk me out of it). Once he had installed it (I think he did use the helpline) when he handed over he did make the comment that I would know more about it than he did in terms of the scheduling, etc. He didn't sit down with me at all and, like you, I have discovered a lot since from here.

  4. #24
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    Default Optimisation

    This morning my heating didn't start up until the set time (ie it didn't start earlier to achieve the temp at 6am). It had done previously but I had noticed that it was getting closer and closer to the set time.I have had a bit of a think (and look) at the optimisation menus and was wondering this, based on what we have just discussed above:
    In the zone setting menus mine was set to enabled (the only options are enabled and disabled) and in the parameter settings it was set to off.
    So my assumption is that you first need the individual zones to be enabled and then the parameter settings optimisation should be changed. This morning I have enabled the 'Optimum Start' and then changed the number of hours to 1 (my rooms do not take long to come up to temp).

    This does not solve why the system was optimising originally but is not now but I am hoping that this will ensure that it does now.

  5. #25
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    Hi Mavis, As a software developer myself, the fact that there are two settings for optimisation appears a bit redundant unless the main optimisation setting parameter invokes a procedure that the individual zone settings then use when they are set to optimisation enabled. However, personally, I would design it that as soon as a single zone has optimisation set to enabled, then it (under the covers) sets the main parameter of optimisation to enabled. I am sure that the designer probably thought that the main parameter was a quick way of turning off optimisation for all zones without having to go into each zone and turn it off. Whilst I can sort of appreciate this (although have no idea why I would want to suddenly switch of all zones for a short time rather than just turn off each zone individually) I would still have designed it that if any zone is set to enabled then it automatically sets the system optimisation parameter thus preventing this issue you have had that you enabled the zone but didn't know about the overall parameter as it is not obvious. Sometimes systems are designed from a technical viewpoint rather than a user viewpoint and whilst evohomes latest colour version of the software is better than the first monochrome version, the software still has a feel of requiring a technical understanding of the system rather than a user viewpoint. There are many aspects that are not intuitive and I still cant reliably figure out the binding of an HR92 versus and HR80 as the evohome has binding for both the actuator and separately the sensor which for the HR80 you do each individually but for the HR92 you don't. However, if I have multiple HR92 in one zone then it appears that each HR92 binding becomes the sensor by default so it is the last one bound in a zone that becomes the sensor! This appears to be done to simplify the installation but actually is more confusing as 1) they don't say in the documentation that you only need to bind the unit as the actuator and the sensor will be bound by default. Therefore the last one bound will be the sensor, 2) the separate sensor binding function still remains in the software and so the binding of an HR92 stated in the documentation appears to miss a step. There still appears to be an expectation that the system will be set up by a trained installer but that only appears to be necessary due to the software not being as intuitive as it could be and the lack of detailed documentation. As you found you can get a “trained installer” who is more confused that you probably are now having played with the system. I find the evohome an excellent system and unique in the market. Why its software and documentation is focused to a trained individual beats me as with just some minor software tweaks and better documentation I believe that most competent tech savy people could install it easily. I am sure there are some unique functions that may benefit from a professional view such as what to set the evohome boiler cycle time setting when you have a boiler that also has its own cycle time built in. However, not getting this spot on affects the heating but what margin? So does it really matter?
    We have a new world that attempts to bring technology to previously mechanical systems and tech savy people such as those on this forum want to exploit the technology options rather than just have the system set up by a professional and never be adjusted. I have 10 zones and 9 have optimisation. One doesn’t optimise due to the use of the room. I originally set it up to optimise and then changed it as I felt the room would benefit from a fixed heating time. The software allows me as the user to do that and I could not have told the installer that fact as it was only once I saw the system operating that I made the adjustment. I like software driven systems as they give the user choice but to exploit that choice the user requires more information and the evohome system supports that choice but leaves the user in the dark about some functions. I know that Ramesis has pointed to training manuals but that I would have thought a few tweaks to the software and some better documentation with sections such as “How to use optimisation” would be all that is required? Most of the questions I have raised and others have on the forum are purely due to the lack of clear information and some ambiguities in the software. Surely it would be cheaper for Honeywell to improve the software and documentation than the cost of responding to all the queries they get? Maybe this forum should have a sticky for a list of improvements to the software and documentation we could contribute to for Honeywell to consider in an update?
    Regarding your Optimum Start hours set up, you may know this but just in case, the optimisation hours only needs to be set lower than its max of 3 hours if you don’t want the system to kick in that early. So if your heating can warm up the zone in less than an hour you can leave the parameter set to 3 hours as it will never need that. My zones are slower to heat up and one zone needs up to 3 hours if it is really cold outside. However, I don’t like the heating starting that early as I am sensitive to the noise so I set it to 2 hours and that means even it wanted to start 3 hours early it will wait until 2 hours before to start up. That does mean that one zone will not be up to temperature but it is preferable to the noise (it’s a towel rad in the bathroom and always covered in towel and no room for a larger ones) All the other zones respond within the 2 hour window and so only start up when required. When warmer that zone only needs less than an hour to warm up and the optimisation will only start up the system at the latest point. So treat that value as the maximum start time and if your system only needs less than an hour normally but lets say overnight temp dropped to minus 20 (daft I know but needed to show my point) and your system needed 3 hours to get up to temp, If you are happy to have the system start 3 hours early then leave that setting at 3. If you have it less than its maximum and it needed the maximum then the house will not be up to temperature. Have fun :-)

  6. #26
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    Thanks SteveP. Something else learned! I did not appreciate that if you have two or more TRVs in a zone its last man in that senses the temperature. I have two in my lounge. Your input has got me to swap them over as the last one bound was in a naturally warmer spot than the other. Also that the start time for optimisation does not mean it will happen then but it only do so according to conditions such that its a limit to not at least start until that setting

    I hear my system fire up during the night - I have a radiator in the conservatory, set to 5C and the temperature drops below that. It comes on for a very short time, then off again. Optimisation is on throughout

    Optimisation. I think it defaults to "on" as you set up zones, not sure possibly if you have already set it so in the main menu. I restored, wiped and reset all on Wednesday to ensure optimisation was set up on an individual basis. What I did not notice was that for every zone the settings had defaulted to Window Function enabled. I had not set that anywhere and thus that certainly seems to be the default setting.

    As you so rightly say though, the instructions supplied are very deficient and not entirely clear. I suspect because Honeywell never gave this much thought as for most of its life it has provided systems for businesses and where the business probably expects the installer to configure. Not so with the domestic market. There is now a lot in this forum of tremendous help which would be nice correlated properly and perhaps a nice article on how the system operates and all parts communicate with each other, why and when. If we understand that then we know how to configure.

    Mavis, you are lucky it is you who likes the gadgets as am sure if it were your husband much more would have been spent!! Now where is that 3 device LighwaveRF relay I need to instal?!!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by G4RHL View Post
    Mavis, you are lucky it is you who likes the gadgets as am sure if it were your husband much more would have been spent!! Now where is that 3 device LighwaveRF relay I need to instal?!!
    Funny you should say that - just been out in my lunch hour and bought a Sonos Play1. Now how do I smuggle that into the house without him seeing it?

  8. #28
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    Ladies have big bags. Once you get it in tell him you have always had it. Or perhaps its been aware for repair.

    I'm waiting for something bigger to arrive. A Musaic Music/Radio system, that despite playing music anywhere from other devices can operate lights using LWRF stuff. Not sure if it will operate Evohome though!. Perhaps having it set to play night music when the valves open and close. Having said that it is LWRF that need that sort of operation, unlike Evohome their valves make an horrendous noise!

  9. #29
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    I think that you will find that with HR92s it is the first TRV 'binded' to the controller that takes the lead. I have checked this with Honeywell and my installer.

  10. #30
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    Two different views. Last TRV takes the sensor lead in a multi TRV zone or the first? Can anybody provide a clear, positive and correct answer? Something else for Honeywell to put in a revised and more helpful manual.

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