What would you like to see in evohome? (have your say)

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  • DBMandrake
    Automated Home Legend
    • Sep 2014
    • 2361

    I am always bemused by the prevalent attitude towards "smart" heating controls among installers and the general population along the lines of "if it doesn't save me money on my gas bill what's the point ?"

    As if saving money were the only reason you might want to improve your heating system. Hence when a study comes along and says TPI or zoning "only saves x few percent" everyone concludes it isn't worth it. (Certainly not in return on investment terms)

    For me Evohome was never about saving money, it was always about better, smoother, more accurate regulation of temperature in rooms, (I hate constantly having to manually tweak TRV's because the room is too hot then too cold, then too hot etc) fully independent control of rooms, (I like being able to turn on a bedroom at night without the hallway blasting downstairs etc) being able to schedule different rooms independently, and remote control of heating when away from home.

    If there is any gas savings, great, but that is a bonus not what I bought the system for. There is no way that the small savings that might be offered from zoning or TPI would pay back the cost of the hardware, unless you kept the system for an unreasonably long time, until it is well past its use by date and no longer supported.
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 27 November 2018, 01:17 PM.

    Comment

    • G4RHL
      Automated Home Legend
      • Jan 2015
      • 1580

      I agree. I never went the Evohome route to save money. It has though. Talking of saving money British Gas called not so long back and tried to persuade me that changing my boiler, as it is 20+ years old, would save me. The man was not happy when I explained that if I changed it would cost me more money for with BG’s prices, and not a wonderful lifespan for the boiler they would install, I would need to replace again before I had recovered the capital cost never mind the costs of suppprting their guarantee. Almost as bad as those idiots who tell you installing a smart meter saves money. With Evohome the chances are I am recovering the capital cost in a reasonable time but that was never ever the motivation.

      Comment

      • HenGus
        Automated Home Legend
        • May 2014
        • 1001

        Originally posted by G4RHL View Post
        I agree. I never went the Evohome route to save money. It has though. Talking of saving money British Gas called not so long back and tried to persuade me that changing my boiler, as it is 20+ years old, would save me. The man was not happy when I explained that if I changed it would cost me more money for with BG’s prices, and not a wonderful lifespan for the boiler they would install, I would need to replace again before I had recovered the capital cost never mind the costs of suppprting their guarantee. Almost as bad as those idiots who tell you installing a smart meter saves money. With Evohome the chances are I am recovering the capital cost in a reasonable time but that was never ever the motivation.
        Sadly, people do believe the extraordinary savings claims made on various manufacturers' websites.

        Comment

        • DBMandrake
          Automated Home Legend
          • Sep 2014
          • 2361

          You'd get more savings on monthly running costs from going from an old non-condensing boiler to a modern condensing boiler.

          However an ROI analysis would probably show that as a net cost rather than saving too, due to the cost of replacing the boiler and the likelihood that the new model won't last as long as the old one it replaced. Under 10 years before a major not-worth-repairing failure occurs seems to be the norm for a modern boiler. A mate just had his one fail catastrophically at 8 years old and had to replace it, our old clunker is now 25 years old and has had only one £25 repair by me (new gas control electrovalve coil sleeve, as the old one went open circuit) in the 3 1/2 years we've been at the house. Took me all of about 15 minutes to diagnose and repair it once I'd ordered in the replacement part, which surprisingly, was still available.

          I dread the day that we finally have to replace it with a more modern but short life span boiler. I'm trying to postpone getting onto that replacement treadmill...
          Last edited by DBMandrake; 27 November 2018, 02:30 PM.

          Comment

          • MrBoy
            Automated Home Guru
            • May 2017
            • 165

            - I would love the restriction on zones was lifted or raised. I have 12 zones in a 4 bed house because we have 4 reception rooms, an office room, loft conversion plus bathroom and kitchen. It's a big house but if we were in the US it would be quite normal. We already cannot put our utility room or hallways into zones, have shared bedroom+ensuite into a MRZ. Plus we have a cellar we are converting... I could see 16 zones being a point you need a special system but not 12. Heck, I'd have paid extra to unlock it on the controller!

            - Being able to set "favourite temperatures" and use these in schedules. e.g. if we set our whole house up that we like 19 in rooms we are using and 14 in those we're not, then decide 20 is better, we have to redo everything. OK we can copy between days but just being able to have control points refer to "WARM_TEMP" and then change "WARM_TEMP" would be neat.

            - A lot of the stuff people have been doing with the API could be provided by Honeywell. I'm surprised they haven't been following what people do to decide what to implement.

            - Being able to set an override in advance. "I'll watch a move in 2 hours" or such. Again, you can probably do this via IFTTT but if you have all these services hooked up you can end up in a right mess

            Comment

            • JamboV6
              Automated Home Jr Member
              • Oct 2017
              • 32

              Is this thread actually going anywhere? It is nearly 4 yrs old and what has actually changed. There was a firmware update late last year that implemented a few UI changes and bug fixes bug. We are now at 34 pages of suggestions and requests for improvements. I think it's time honeywell actually give some feedback as to where then plan on going with this system and stop playing the "we want to make sure it's right first" card. Atleast collate the suggestions and tick off what isn't possible. This is a high end expensive system. Honeywell state they want to stay ahead but seem to not be willing to do anything to keep the system at the top. There are still basic user control issues that are not being addressed so what hope do we have of geofencing and other such advanced automation.

              Comment

              • MrBoy
                Automated Home Guru
                • May 2017
                • 165

                This fear is one of the reasons I researched a lot before buying, and have been so interested in hacking the controller without having to go through their server... in case they turn it off or deprecate it or just make it terrible.

                Off-topic but just sayin;

                Comment

                • Behold81
                  Automated Home Lurker
                  • Nov 2018
                  • 6

                  you are right I have a house made like a sieve! I have old Victorian floor boards with gaps bigger than…never mind... All stat upon a 4.5ft voided pier foundation that lets air in all over the place. Add to that that none of my windows seal properly and I now run a Positive pressure unit to combat the condensation issues that causes.

                  Electric heating will always cost. if I run my underfloor heating it costs me about £3 a day just for that. add in a electric boiler running for the day to keep a store warm will also add to that cost. I heat as much by wood as possible as its freely available to me. the Honeywell or similar will use my Thermal store more efficiently if I can get it setup (still working this out if its possible) and mean it needs heating less if its running less rooms to heat. less demand on the store means if the fire is not running then hopefully my electric boiler is not running unless absolutely needed. This is great for mornings or coming home from work. on evenings and weekends I run the fire to keep it topped and I should save all my bills hugely.

                  I would say I will save more than the average.

                  Comment

                  • Behold81
                    Automated Home Lurker
                    • Nov 2018
                    • 6

                    This is true too. I have smart home automation throughout. so part of it is the inner geek! I love something techy! but having the fire on in the front room I don't always need the rad on as the room is double heated. and I only need to heat the shower room every morning. and I don't need my bedroom too hot as my bed is heated anyway. complete control makes the most sense. But Savings are in the mix for me as I know I can save a lot.

                    Comment

                    • MrBoy
                      Automated Home Guru
                      • May 2017
                      • 165

                      I track my energy usage and have now had the Evo long enough to compare before/after compared to a year ago (weather conditions play a part of course). I have NOT really seen savings BUT before our house was always cold because we only put the heating on as last resort. Now, my office is warm, the living room is warm when we need it etc... so our usage is about the same but we are much more comfortable.

                      Comment

                      • jvallis
                        Automated Home Jr Member
                        • Feb 2018
                        • 29

                        Here's my wish list for evohome. Basically evolve from 1990's central heating (OpenTherm is 22 years old!) and move into 21st century domestic HVAC and integrate some capabilities between various Honeywell tentacles.

                        1) More than 12 zones.

                        2) Slave zones with different temps.
                        - For example, an ensuite bathroom should have the same schedule as the bedroom, but a different temperature.

                        3) Humidity Sensor in HR92
                        - See below for more comments on humidity support

                        4) Humidity Sensor in DTS92
                        - See below for more comments on humidity support

                        5) evohome-integrated (de)humidifiers
                        - Honeywell makes some of the best (de)humidifiers in the US

                        6) evohome-integrated fans

                        7) Per Zone Charting
                        7a) Outside temp vs Zone temp
                        7b) Outside humidity vs Zone humidity
                        7c) Heating demand in Zone
                        7d) Zone preheat duration
                        7e) Open Window detected

                        8) Whole House Charting
                        8a) Outside temp
                        8b) Flow temp
                        8c) Return temp
                        8d) Boiler demand temp
                        8e) Gas cost

                        9) Smart Plug device with electric usage reporting
                        - Handle things like electric heaters, electric blankets or a coffee machine to a schedule, or a fan, (de)humidifier to a zone to help ventilation/humidity

                        10) Oil Tank Sensor
                        - Just a simple gauge which when configured with tank capacity will allow consumption monitoring

                        11) Smart Meter 'Consumer Access Device'
                        - Solar power Generation, Electric and Gas consumption monitoring and Demand Response handling.
                        - Honeywell Elster is another tentacle of Honeywell.

                        12) Immersion Heater relay (ie a high-current BDR91)
                        - When DHW circuit doesn't work, or electricity < gas (e.g. during Solar Power generation / time of use tariff)
                        - can also be used for electric UFH if there's a temp sensor and a safety circuit

                        13) Air conditioning (and by extension, a Heat Pump) bridge
                        - Cooling matters increasingly in the UK as do heat pumps (air, ground or water source), but cooling is vital to continental Europe, plus solar powered air conditioning? Yes please.

                        14) Modbus bridge
                        - If it had more zone support, there's no reason evohome can't help be part of a whole-building HVAC command and control system. May also double up as Air-con bridge?

                        15) A proper API. Replicate the per-device messages that the HGI80 produces but via the API.
                        - It's nearly 2019.

                        16) More than 6 schedules per day (should be unlimited/to nearest 15-20 minute 'block')
                        - Stop putting arbitrary limitations. Limit to physical limits, e.g. RAM, storage or network devices!

                        17) 'Full' optimisation. Optimise both Start and Stop.

                        18) evohome-integrated Smoke, Heat and CO alarms. If they detect anything shut off everything!

                        Notes on Humidity Support

                        The biggest effect evohome has is not normally when installing it an efficient building, but quite the opposite: when installing it in a building with terrible heat characteristics. The dramatic difference that evohome makes to say a medieval Cotswold cottage is an astounding night-and-day experience, that I've seen friends who use half a tank of oil less in a year. In a new build it's 'oh I saved a few pence' - so please stop designing to an ideal set up! How often have you seen people say how previously the house felt cold or the house had hot and cold spots and after evohome no longer?

                        Old buildings don't just suffer from bad or no insulation, but they suffer from very high humidity, and can be pretty miserable dungeon-like places to be (think of a dark and dank stone castle). This in turn has an effect on the 'feels like' temperature (humidex) which is calculated from both humidity and temperature. A zone at 20C in a well insulated, dry house feels dramatically different to a zone also at 20C in a damp house. evohome is totally oblivious to 'feels like' temperature because it has no humidity sensors.

                        Therefore, can we have the DTS92 and HR92 revamped and add a humidity sensor to both, with the software controlling temperatures and humidity together. In addition, for existing set ups, a simple whole house humidity sensor would be useful to protect existing investments. Also, while the EU generally use air conditioners for dehumidification, compared to dedicated de/humidifiers like the US use, they both matter enormously to comfort and well being.

                        There are many other side-effects from being able to control humidity (e.g. reduce mildew, protect wood, dry out plaster), and while humidifiers and dehumidifiers aren't big here as they are in the US, guess what, Honeywell makes the best (de)humidifiers, so enable them to be evohome-controlled and purchased in the EU market, as well as doing humidification control via the all-essential air con bridge.
                        Last edited by jvallis; 29 November 2018, 05:44 PM.

                        Comment

                        • paulockenden
                          Automated Home Legend
                          • Apr 2015
                          • 1719

                          Good list!

                          I fear the ears are deaf. I don't think the Honeywell guys frequent this place very much these days?

                          Comment

                          • Behold81
                            Automated Home Lurker
                            • Nov 2018
                            • 6

                            Originally posted by jvallis View Post
                            Here's my wish list for evohome. Basically evolve from 1990's central heating (OpenTherm is 22 years old!) and move into 21st century domestic HVAC and integrate some capabilities between various Honeywell tentacles.

                            1) More than 12 zones.

                            2) Slave zones with different temps.
                            - For example, an ensuite bathroom should have the same schedule as the bedroom, but a different temperature.

                            3) Humidity Sensor in HR92
                            - See below for more comments on humidity support

                            4) Humidity Sensor in DTS92
                            - See below for more comments on humidity support

                            5) evohome-integrated (de)humidifiers
                            - Honeywell makes some of the best (de)humidifiers in the US

                            6) evohome-integrated fans

                            7) Per Zone Charting
                            7a) Outside temp vs Zone temp
                            7b) Outside humidity vs Zone humidity
                            7c) Heating demand in Zone
                            7d) Zone preheat duration
                            7e) Open Window detected

                            8) Whole House Charting
                            8a) Outside temp
                            8b) Flow temp
                            8c) Return temp
                            8d) Boiler demand temp
                            8e) Gas cost

                            9) Smart Plug device with electric usage reporting
                            - Handle things like electric heaters, electric blankets or a coffee machine to a schedule, or a fan, (de)humidifier to a zone to help ventilation/humidity

                            10) Oil Tank Sensor
                            - Just a simple gauge which when configured with tank capacity will allow consumption monitoring

                            11) Smart Meter 'Consumer Access Device'
                            - Solar power Generation, Electric and Gas consumption monitoring and Demand Response handling.
                            - Honeywell Elster is another tentacle of Honeywell.

                            12) Immersion Heater relay (ie a high-current BDR91)
                            - When DHW circuit doesn't work, or electricity < gas (e.g. during Solar Power generation / time of use tariff)
                            - can also be used for electric UFH if there's a temp sensor and a safety circuit

                            13) Air conditioning (and by extension, a Heat Pump) bridge
                            - Cooling matters increasingly in the UK as do heat pumps (air, ground or water source), but cooling is vital to continental Europe, plus solar powered air conditioning? Yes please.

                            14) Modbus bridge
                            - If it had more zone support, there's no reason evohome can't help be part of a whole-building HVAC command and control system. May also double up as Air-con bridge?

                            15) A proper API. Replicate the per-device messages that the HGI80 produces but via the API.
                            - It's nearly 2019.

                            16) More than 6 schedules per day (should be unlimited/to nearest 15-20 minute 'block')
                            - Stop putting arbitrary limitations. Limit to physical limits, e.g. RAM, storage or network devices!

                            17) 'Full' optimisation. Optimise both Start and Stop.

                            18) evohome-integrated Smoke, Heat and CO alarms. If they detect anything shut off everything!

                            Notes on Humidity Support

                            The biggest effect evohome has is not normally when installing it an efficient building, but quite the opposite: when installing it in a building with terrible heat characteristics. The dramatic difference that evohome makes to say a medieval Cotswold cottage is an astounding night-and-day experience, that I've seen friends who use half a tank of oil less in a year. In a new build it's 'oh I saved a few pence' - so please stop designing to an ideal set up! How often have you seen people say how previously the house felt cold or the house had hot and cold spots and after evohome no longer?

                            Old buildings don't just suffer from bad or no insulation, but they suffer from very high humidity, and can be pretty miserable dungeon-like places to be (think of a dark and dank stone castle). This in turn has an effect on the 'feels like' temperature (humidex) which is calculated from both humidity and temperature. A zone at 20C in a well insulated, dry house feels dramatically different to a zone also at 20C in a damp house. evohome is totally oblivious to 'feels like' temperature because it has no humidity sensors.

                            Therefore, can we have the DTS92 and HR92 revamped and add a humidity sensor to both, with the software controlling temperatures and humidity together. In addition, for existing set ups, a simple whole house humidity sensor would be useful to protect existing investments. Also, while the EU generally use air conditioners for dehumidification, compared to dedicated de/humidifiers like the US use, they both matter enormously to comfort and well being.

                            There are many other side-effects from being able to control humidity (e.g. reduce mildew, protect wood, dry out plaster), and while humidifiers and dehumidifiers aren't big here as they are in the US, guess what, Honeywell makes the best (de)humidifiers, so enable them to be evohome-controlled and purchased in the EU market, as well as doing humidification control via the all-essential air con bridge.
                            Only thing missing is thermal store. you captured the rest of the heating market.

                            Immersion switch would be easy enough. Salius already do one and allow rebranding. Its fully zwave capable and just works. To be honest most relays exist. they just need integration in to a hub.

                            Comment

                            • mtmcgavock
                              Automated Home Legend
                              • Mar 2017
                              • 507

                              I think whilst some of the above points are very valid, some are just not suited to this device and of more towards a Home Automation system. At the end of the day Evohome is designed to control a water fired heating system. Start adding other things into the mix and really I think you're into Home Automation. The panel is designed for consumers, not advanced users. I have customers which literally set and forget knowing that it just works and that's all they need it to do.

                              However, here are the things I'd like to see -

                              1) Software Hot Water Priority - an option in the settings to allow this. Could be so easily done. I've wired mine up for this, however with some simple programming it could be so easy to just enable without wiring.
                              2) Boost Button for All Zones - A simple button that boosts all zones to a set temperature (That you could select in settings like Away and select applied zones) for 1,2 or 3 hours. I know this is achievable on quick actions, however it'd be nice to have a preset button like on the HW. Leaving the quick action for another one.
                              3) More Zones - 12 isn't enough.
                              4) Low battery email/App notification for devices.
                              5) Some form of logging for Zones - E.g. Time spent on, warm up times, min and max temperatures etc. (Covered on post above)
                              6) See which zone is demanding heat on the main screen with a flame icon on the zone.
                              7) Better support for OT (Coming back to Point 1 too)
                              8) Feature to Backup the full system to your online account - Or at least a Schedule Back up. Should you have to reset you can restore schedules.
                              9) Show when a remote sensor is being used on the System summary.
                              10) Summer Mode - In effect where you can have summer mode (So a set back temp of say 16oc) and apply it to selected zones. In summer we still want our Towel Rails on so 'Heating Off' doesn't work for us.
                              11) Alerts for when a zone isn't heating - For instance, very very occasionally our boiler will lock out. It'd be nice to get a notification to know that zones aren't getting heated - Would be particularly useful if you were away and your boiler failed or if a HR92 failed.
                              12) Fix for the low battery issue on Main panel when removed from power - forcing the recharge every few months can be annoying.

                              Comment

                              • JamboV6
                                Automated Home Jr Member
                                • Oct 2017
                                • 32

                                Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
                                Good list!

                                I fear the ears are deaf. I don't think the Honeywell guys frequent this place very much these days?
                                Rameses? Any input would be greatly appreciated

                                Comment

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