Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 32

Thread: Evohome and Nu-heat UFH

  1. #1
    Automated Home Jr Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    18

    Default Evohome and Nu-heat UFH

    Hi all!

    I have an existing Evohome (colour) with boiler and HR92's for the upstairs radiators. All is working fine.

    The next part of the project is to remove the 60mm screed (sitting on concrete) throughout the ground floor and install Nu-heat LoProMax with a combination of engineered wood and tiles. I have chosen LoProMax due to it's 22mm profile and impressive heating qualities (or so I've read!). I want to create 5 x UFH zones (kitchen, playroom, study, hallway, and lounge).

    The problem I have is determining which Nu-heat components will integrate best with the Evohome HCC80R UFH controller. I want Evohome to manage the zones, but I need to ensure the Nu-heat in-floor thermostats can stop the boiler from overheating the flooring in a zone to prevent the floor covering from becoming damaged. Nu-heat are reluctant to speak to Honeywell (which I find odd), so I'm left in the middle hoping that someone on this forum can share their experiences of this configuration.

    Nu-heat have quoted for the following components (in addition to piping and self-levelling compound).

    1 x Pump and temperature control module incorporating Grundfos variable speed (EuP compliant) pump and mixing valve (DN25)
    3 x Connection pack for Optiflo manifolds
    1 x 5-port Optiflo manifold module with zone valves, flow meters, isolating valves, temperature gauges, pressure gauge and wiring centre
    1 x 2-port Optiflo manifold module with zone valves, flow meters, isolating valves, temperature gauges, pressure gauge and wiring centre
    1 x 3-port Optiflo manifold module with zone valves, flow meters, isolating valves, temperature gauges, pressure gauge and wiring centre
    1 x Four Channel Touch-screen Time Clock
    5 x Wall-mounted room thermostat with floor sensor

    Do I need all of the above components or can some of them be replaced with Evohome components for better integration?

    Thanks in advance.

    Heath
    Last edited by HeathU; 3rd February 2015 at 01:24 PM.

  2. #2
    Automated Home Sr Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Hi, I am not an expert on this but since I do have underfloor heating (though not part of my evohome system) and no-one else has replied...

    I don't understand why you have been quoted 10 ways of manifold with zone valves and flow and temperature gauges, surely for the return (or flow, depending) you just need a 5-way plain manifold?

    I assume you have had a look at the HCC80R instructions here

    http://www.honeywelluk.com/Documents...%20version.pdf

    It looks as though this should integrate OK in place of the Four Channel Touch-screen Time Clock,
    using either the Nu-heat or wireless Honeywell room stats and with the Nu-heat in-floor thermostats hardwired into the actuator circuit to prevent excessive temperatures. You would need to check whether this would provide adequate boiler interlocking.

    HTH

  3. #3
    Automated Home Jr Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Hi sharpener,

    I don't understand why you have been quoted 10 ways of manifold with zone valves and flow and temperature gauges, surely for the return (or flow, depending) you just need a 5-way plain manifold?
    I had assumed it was a requirement to have the manifolds within a certain distance of the different UFH zones. As the UFH will be spread across some 160m2. I will get back to Nu-heat and ask.

    It looks as though this should integrate OK in place of the Four Channel Touch-screen Time Clock,
    using either the Nu-heat or wireless Honeywell room stats and with the Nu-heat in-floor thermostats hardwired into the actuator circuit to prevent excessive temperatures.
    This is what I had hoped but I will take a look at the Evohome room stat docs.

    Just to muddy the water, I am now looking at Polypipe as an alternative quote to Nu-heat. Anybody got any experience of either of these systems with Evohome?

    Thanks,
    Heath

  4. #4
    Automated Home Legend top brake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    the edge of the cloud
    Posts
    827

    Default

    HCC80R will integrate with most wet underfloor manifolds. It will also operate the local pump/valve.
    You need to check that the thermal actuator heads are 230v and not 24v. It can control N/O or N/C thermal actuators (there's a changeover setting).
    The wiring connections and binding are explained in detail in the installation manual you get with the HCC80R.

    The underfloor heating companies struggle to provide advise on compatibility as they are trained on their own controls. An experienced evohome specialist will be best placed to help you here.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeathU View Post
    Hi sharpener,



    I had assumed it was a requirement to have the manifolds within a certain distance of the different UFH zones. As the UFH will be spread across some 160m2. I will get back to Nu-heat and ask.



    This is what I had hoped but I will take a look at the Evohome room stat docs.

    Just to muddy the water, I am now looking at Polypipe as an alternative quote to Nu-heat. Anybody got any experience of either of these systems with Evohome?

    Thanks,
    Heath

  5. #5
    Automated Home Sr Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpener View Post
    It looks as though this should integrate OK using either the Nu-heat or wireless Honeywell room stats and with the Nu-heat in-floor thermostats hardwired into the actuator circuit to prevent excessive temperatures.
    Hi Heath, would't want to have misled you on this!

    I had a more detailed look at the online Nu-heat documentation and it would seem the underfloor temperature sensors need to be wired into their room stats. It's not clear to me whether they are part of the normal control loop or are just used for protection in the event of e.g. mixing valve failure. If the latter then there might be other possible solutions e.g. a high limit stat on the pipe between mixing valve and manifold.

    BTW I don't know about the Polypipe UFH system but their pipe fittings are IMHO more robust than the JG Speedfit ones that Nu-heat use and less likely to come apart by accident. And I have heard even worse things about Flo-fix.

  6. #6
    Site Sponsor The EVOHOME Shop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Powys, Mid Wales
    Posts
    479

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HeathU View Post
    Hi sharpener,



    I had assumed it was a requirement to have the manifolds within a certain distance of the different UFH zones. As the UFH will be spread across some 160m2. I will get back to Nu-heat and ask.



    This is what I had hoped but I will take a look at the Evohome room stat docs.

    Just to muddy the water, I am now looking at Polypipe as an alternative quote to Nu-heat. Anybody got any experience of either of these systems with Evohome?

    Thanks,
    Heath
    Hi Heath,

    I used to install Uponor and Myson UFH systems and both are excellent. We have sold many HCC80R's as evohome upgrades for many different UFH manufacturers manifolds.

    My own house has a 12 port Uponor UFH manifold and with the appropriate pump group is capable of a maximum UFH pipe length of 120m. Our downstairs floor area is 128m2 which this manifold operates.

    With evohome, basically I suggest to get all the pipework, UFH manifold(s), pump station and 230v thermal actuators from your chosen manufacturer (both Myson and Uponor accommodate this) and then all you will need from an evohome perspective is as Top Brake says is the evohome items such as the HCC80R and relevant Honeywell wireless room thermostats (DTS92 or T87RF) for the amount of zones you have.

    The HCC80R in standard form is capable of 5 zones (with a maximum of 3x 230v thermal actuators per UFH zone, but you can combine multiple zones through evohome as a heating zone) but this can be expanded to 8 zones. The evohome controller you have is capable of 12 zones, so can accommodate a multiple HCC80R's.

    If you have further questions maybe give us a call?

    Thanks,

    Richard

  7. #7
    Automated Home Jr Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Hi,

    I'm going to open this thread up again as our building work is underway and sadly I'm getting concerned that Evohome is going to restrict our selection of UFH floor coverings. Let me explain why.

    Most UFH resellers, including Nu-heat, normally provide their own heating controller with the manifold, which includes a thermostat with a floor probe to ensure the floor temperature doesn't max out causing flooring, such as engineered wood to warp etc.

    Evohome, on the other hand, measures the air temp and calls additional heat via the HCC80R when needed for each UFH zone. We've been recommended by Nu-heat to set the manifold max water temp to 55 degrees. However, Evohome doesn't use a floor probe, which means if we want engineered wood, or something similar that has floor temp limits, basically anything other than tiles, we will need to reduce the max temp from the manifold to say 47 degrees, which is likely to limit the temperature of all zones off that manifold. We were planning to have a combination of tiles/engineered wood, or just engineered wood in some of the zones.

    It seems this is a major downside to the Evohome system. At this point, I'm considering my options as 1) I don't want two different heating systems (Evohome for HW and rads) and another for UFH, 2) give up and go for tiles (which we may regret over time), 3) replace Evohome for a different system than includes UFH floor probes (shame as I like Evohome), or 4) reduce the manifold temp output and risk having cold rooms in winter.

    Any thoughts and experiences?

    Regards,
    Heath

  8. #8
    Automated Home Legend top brake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    the edge of the cloud
    Posts
    827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HeathU View Post
    Hi,

    I'm going to open this thread up again as our building work is underway and sadly I'm getting concerned that Evohome is going to restrict our selection of UFH floor coverings. Let me explain why.

    Most UFH resellers, including Nu-heat, normally provide their own heating controller with the manifold, which includes a thermostat with a floor probe to ensure the floor temperature doesn't max out causing flooring, such as engineered wood to warp etc.

    Evohome, on the other hand, measures the air temp and calls additional heat via the HCC80R when needed for each UFH zone. We've been recommended by Nu-heat to set the manifold max water temp to 55 degrees. However, Evohome doesn't use a floor probe, which means if we want engineered wood, or something similar that has floor temp limits, basically anything other than tiles, we will need to reduce the max temp from the manifold to say 47 degrees, which is likely to limit the temperature of all zones off that manifold. We were planning to have a combination of tiles/engineered wood, or just engineered wood in some of the zones.

    It seems this is a major downside to the Evohome system. At this point, I'm considering my options as 1) I don't want two different heating systems (Evohome for HW and rads) and another for UFH, 2) give up and go for tiles (which we may regret over time), 3) replace Evohome for a different system than includes UFH floor probes (shame as I like Evohome), or 4) reduce the manifold temp output and risk having cold rooms in winter.

    Any thoughts and experiences?

    Regards,
    Heath

    Hi Heath

    Just get the ufh piping layout and screed thermal mass designed for 45 degree max flow temperature at worst case winter temperatures

    You do the same for radiators when running compensated flow temperatures, i.e. slightly bigger.

    Running your boiler at lower flow temperatures is a win win as it ensures the boiler heat exchanger is fully condensing and maximum efficiency

    Hope this helps
    I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.

  9. #9

    Default

    Do you need a flow temperature as high as 55 degrees? When I built my house a little over 10 years ago I had my underfloor designed to work with low water flow temps as I have a ground source heat pump. As a consequence I have a water flow temperature in the mid 30s, so nowhere near 55 degrees. My house is in Scotland so has to stay comfortable with outside temps as low as -15. In those kind of temps I run my heating 24/7, and at any other time an I can happily use room by room time programs from my Evo system.

    In my case I have a mixture of tile/stone, engineered oak, and laminate flooring and have no need for floor temperature control. My manifolds do not even have mixing valves as I control the flow temperature to the heating circuit directly at my heat pump.

    If you have to use high flow temps, either due to excessive heat losses from you house, or due to the sub-floor construction then there is nothing preventing you from adding provision for floor sensors wired back to traditional (dial) stats (such as Devireg 130) and wire the zone outputs of the Evohome manifold controller in series with your floor stats so that you have high limit control. Do make certain you position you floor probes carefully (not too close to any pipework and as close to the top of the sub floor as you can manage) otherwise you will find it difficult (if not impossible) to accurately control the floor temperature. Do also add spare sensors or make sure you can easily replace floor sensors too, they can and do fail from time to time!

  10. #10
    Automated Home Guru
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    131

    Default

    Cant really comment on the value of the HCC80, but the main issue with (old) underfloor heating systems is that the pump is on 24/7. When I bought my system it came with a computerized pump that will only run if there is a heat demand but will also do a single rev once every time to prevent the pump going stuck. That little thing probably saves me in between 200 and 300 Euro a year. I don't think having an HCC80 controlling the individual outputs will add much to this system, so I'm thinking of placing a simple HR92 in the feed. Should add that I run on city block heating, so what applies to me may not to others. All I need to do is open the valve, I do not have any startup costs for firing up any boiler.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •