Balancing EvoHome zone with multiple HR92s

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  • emmeesse68
    Automated Home Guru
    • Dec 2014
    • 103

    #16
    Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
    This may not help... because I've a Hometronic setup, but the HR92s are the same, so... If I had your situation with two quite different radiator locations in the same zone, I would not explicitly assign one of the HR92s to be the temperature sensor, simply bind them both to the same zone and let them get on with it. This has the positive effect that both HR92s act independently in maintaining the same setpoint locally, but in Hometronic has the negative effect of not being able to display the achieved zone temperature at the controller. Alternatively, I would buy one of the wall-mounted temperature sensors and explicitly assign that as the sensor, which would enable achieved zone temperature reporting at the controller.
    I don't think you can actually not assign an HR92 as a zone sensor. When you configure a zone, the controller asks wether you want to use the inbuilt sensor for the zone. Saying "no", it goes into binding the room sensor - that could be the first HR92 or another thermostat. So, the first HR92 bound to the zone becomes "master" and acts as a sensor for that zone. Did you find a different way to bind them? Just curious...

    Anyway, since my thermostats are not arriving any soon, I think I'll follow erik's suggestion and try recreating my bedroom zone from scratch, and see what happens then.

    Does anyone have experience of such a configuration, with valves having different stroke and offset configuration?

    Comment

    • jonstatt
      Automated Home Guru
      • Feb 2015
      • 111

      #17
      Originally posted by emmeesse68 View Post
      I don't think you can actually not assign an HR92 as a zone sensor. When you configure a zone, the controller asks wether you want to use the inbuilt sensor for the zone. Saying "no", it goes into binding the room sensor - that could be the first HR92 or another thermostat. So, the first HR92 bound to the zone becomes "master" and acts as a sensor for that zone. Did you find a different way to bind them? Just curious...

      Anyway, since my thermostats are not arriving any soon, I think I'll follow erik's suggestion and try recreating my bedroom zone from scratch, and see what happens then.

      Does anyone have experience of such a configuration, with valves having different stroke and offset configuration?
      I don't but I am curious, assuming all your radiators had the same TRV fitting previously, why one radiator would be different to another in the stroke length? Are they that variable?

      Comment

      • emmeesse68
        Automated Home Guru
        • Dec 2014
        • 103

        #18
        Originally posted by jonstatt View Post
        I don't but I am curious, assuming all your radiators had the same TRV fitting previously, why one radiator would be different to another in the stroke length? Are they that variable?
        I also assumed all my valves were equal. They are the same make and model (FAR, Italian make, dunno wether they are known at all abroad) and were fitted with thermostatic heads that I replaced with HR92s, using Danfoss RA adapters (included with HR92).

        Before I installed HR92s, my thermostatic valves have been all open and nobody touched them for 15 years. So maybe one particular valve could have been ruined for the long inactivity and now needs the full stroke to work properly, while others are still OK (or the other way round).

        It appeared as the particular valve got stuck in closed position and couldn't open when the HR92 was configured for regular stroke. If I took the motor off, I could notice the valve wasn't completely open even if the HR92 reported 100%. So I tried full stroke and it actually worked.

        Tonight I plan to do another test, and set the other valve to full stroke, and see if the % shown gets closer to one another.

        Differently, I'll just try deleting/rebuilding the whole zone.

        Comment

        • G4RHL
          Automated Home Legend
          • Jan 2015
          • 1580

          #19
          Originally posted by emmeesse68 View Post
          I don't think you can actually not assign an HR92 as a zone sensor. When you configure a zone, the controller asks wether you want to use the inbuilt sensor for the zone. Saying "no", it goes into binding the room sensor - that could be the first HR92 or another thermostat. So, the first HR92 bound to the zone becomes "master" and acts as a sensor for that zone
          I don't think the right and the subject has been covered elsewhere in the forum. The ordering of binding has no effect on priority. I think the only way to control an awkward zone is a room stat instead of relying on the HR92s.

          Comment

          • emmeesse68
            Automated Home Guru
            • Dec 2014
            • 103

            #20
            Originally posted by G4RHL View Post
            I don't think the right and the subject has been covered elsewhere in the forum. The ordering of binding has no effect on priority. I think the only way to control an awkward zone is a room stat instead of relying on the HR92s.
            I'm not fully convinced... I can't remember being asked which HR92 to use as a sensor. Defining a zone, you can bind a single HR92 as a sensor and actuator. All the HR92 that you bind after the first act as actuator only. This would imply the first one is the sensor and others added after the first are just actuators.

            I didn't read this in any documentation, I just infer it by my experience binding valves to a zone... Am I wrong?

            And... I'm adding a room thermostat as soon as it arrives at the store!

            Comment

            • JohnnyP
              Automated Home Jr Member
              • Nov 2008
              • 38

              #21
              If the two HR92s are bound to the same zone, and one is designated at the temperature sensor, then even if one HR92 is on FUL stroke and the other on DEF, then they should both activate at the same time. They may well show different valve position, but they will be synchronised in time. Might be worth checking...

              Comment

              • HenGus
                Automated Home Legend
                • May 2014
                • 1001

                #22
                Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
                If the two HR92s are bound to the same zone, and one is designated at the temperature sensor, then even if one HR92 is on FUL stroke and the other on DEF, then they should both activate at the same time. They may well show different valve position, but they will be synchronised in time. Might be worth checking...
                With the HR92, the first one 'bound' has the lead. My installer left me with a 2 HR92 zone, with the 'lead' behind a long curtain. I think that he was just in a rush to get away. A simple job to change them over but nothing about this in the consumer documentation.

                Comment

                • erik
                  Automated Home Guru
                  • Feb 2015
                  • 244

                  #23
                  It doesn't matter which one is bound as an actuator first. It's about which one is bound as a sensor. Also, it depends on the multi-room setting. If set to single room, the sensor is in the lead. If set to multi room, they behave independant of each other.

                  Full or normal stroke always behaves independant.

                  Also, my 2 HR92's dont always work EXACTLY at the same time. When raising setpoint far above current temperature, they usually do. But once the temp has almost reached setpoint, often there's a minute between the two changing valve position.

                  Comment

                  • HenGus
                    Automated Home Legend
                    • May 2014
                    • 1001

                    #24
                    Originally posted by erik View Post
                    It doesn't matter which one is bound as an actuator first. It's about which one is bound as a sensor. Also, it depends on the multi-room setting. If set to single room, the sensor is in the lead. If set to multi room, they behave independant of each other.

                    Full or normal stroke always behaves independant.

                    Also, my 2 HR92's dont always work EXACTLY at the same time. When raising setpoint far above current temperature, they usually do. But once the temp has almost reached setpoint, often there's a minute between the two changing valve position.
                    Evohome Tech Support confirmed to me that the first HR92 bound in a zone is the temperature sensor.

                    Comment

                    • erik
                      Automated Home Guru
                      • Feb 2015
                      • 244

                      #25
                      That's a matter of speech probably. You bind the sensor to a zone before you bind the actuators to a zone. It's 2 seperate steps.

                      Comment

                      • jonstatt
                        Automated Home Guru
                        • Feb 2015
                        • 111

                        #26
                        Originally posted by erik View Post
                        That's a matter of speech probably. You bind the sensor to a zone before you bind the actuators to a zone. It's 2 seperate steps.
                        Not if you are just using HR92s. It first asks you if you are using the "internal" sensor of the controller, answer of course is no. Then it asks you to bind the actuator. The first actuator also provides the sensor. If you want to add a separate sensor, then the flow is slightly different.

                        For example, you can add a T87 thermostat afterwards by editing the zone and adding a sensor separately which then takes over the HR92s already paired.

                        Comment

                        • erik
                          Automated Home Guru
                          • Feb 2015
                          • 244

                          #27
                          If I answer NO to the question about the internal sensor, it asks me to bind an external sensor. AFTERWARDS, it asks to bind actuators. Are we talking about the same Evohome Color system here?

                          Comment

                          • G4RHL
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Jan 2015
                            • 1580

                            #28
                            ....and yet somewhere in this forum came back the answer that there is no priority when an HR92 is bound.

                            Comment

                            • jonstatt
                              Automated Home Guru
                              • Feb 2015
                              • 111

                              #29
                              Originally posted by erik View Post
                              If I answer NO to the question about the internal sensor, it asks me to bind an external sensor. AFTERWARDS, it asks to bind actuators. Are we talking about the same Evohome Color system here?
                              Sorry, as I haven't got it in-front of me at the moment I cannot see the exact wording, but what I was getting at is you don't bind the HR92 twice (once as sensor, once as actuator). It is done in one go such that when you select "Bind" on the HR92, it communicates itself as both sensor and actuator in one pass. If you then add a second HR92, the first HR92 still provides the sensor part. I had to reverse a room's priority sensor, because one of them was near a loudspeaker which nicely created a pocket of warm air around the HR92 resulting in it reading totally wrong temperatures.
                              Last edited by jonstatt; 4 March 2015, 07:09 PM.

                              Comment

                              • erik
                                Automated Home Guru
                                • Feb 2015
                                • 244

                                #30
                                I stand corrected.



                                After assigning the HR92 as a sensor, it is automatically also added as an actuator. Afterwards, it asks you if you want to add more actuators. So yes, the first one you add (at the sensor bind question), is the one in charge (unless you enable multi-room mode).

                                Comment

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