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Thread: Evohome - poor temperature regulation

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by top brake View Post
    are the adaptors are seated correctly and black wheel fully anticlockwise then the HR92 attached and switch clicked into place?
    gone through CYCL optimisation?

    if you short press the button on HR92 does it display zone B name?

    did you encounter any issues when binding?

    Yes the plastic ring is snug and tight, and the HR92 locked into place with the sliding switch. It cycles fully open-closed about a minute or two after installing it.
    Yes if I press the button, it knows it's name.

    Yes of course I encountered issues when binding - the binding procedure documentation is incomplete.
    Procedure should be given as:
    - Put HR92 in binding mode before starting binding mode on the Evohome. (short press, then long press of HR92 button).
    - Put Evohome in bind mode for remote device.
    - Press button again on HR92.
    - Evohome says bound. When done correctly, it doesn't go on to ask for actuator binding. (it did do that to me a few times on my first attempt - then having worked out the right procedure and binding them again it was ok).

    In any case I have since done a factory reset, battery out and rebound everything, no change. What I have not tried is: unbinding the zone valves, then taking their batteries out as well, taking the batteries out of the evohome, waiting 5 minutes, and starting again. Also what is this I read about having to wait before pressing the 'tick'?

    Anyway I'd be really surprised if this is a binding issue. They all report the correct zone name, and can all act individually if the temperatures are set such.
    If I turn all other zones down low - the other valves close within 1-2 minutes- and then I turn one zone up, then that one zone is the correct one that heats up and the others do not. (and yes it heats up to tset +1.5).

    We seem to be going round in circles somewhat...

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by greyhound1234 View Post
    Yes the plastic ring is snug and tight, and the HR92 locked into place with the sliding switch. It cycles fully open-closed about a minute or two after installing it.
    Yes if I press the button, it knows it's name.

    Yes of course I encountered issues when binding - the binding procedure documentation is incomplete.
    Procedure should be given as:
    - Put HR92 in binding mode before starting binding mode on the Evohome. (short press, then long press of HR92 button).
    - Put Evohome in bind mode for remote device.
    - Press button again on HR92.
    - Evohome says bound. When done correctly, it doesn't go on to ask for actuator binding. (it did do that to me a few times on my first attempt - then having worked out the right procedure and binding them again it was ok).

    In any case I have since done a factory reset, battery out and rebound everything, no change. What I have not tried is: unbinding the zone valves, then taking their batteries out as well, taking the batteries out of the evohome, waiting 5 minutes, and starting again. Also what is this I read about having to wait before pressing the 'tick'?

    Anyway I'd be really surprised if this is a binding issue. They all report the correct zone name, and can all act individually if the temperatures are set such.
    If I turn all other zones down low - the other valves close within 1-2 minutes- and then I turn one zone up, then that one zone is the correct one that heats up and the others do not. (and yes it heats up to tset +1.5).

    We seem to be going round in circles somewhat...
    not really following what you mean about the binding documentation being incomplete, i find them very clear and step by step literally accurate?

    here are the instructions:

    HR92 binding.jpg

    i am sharing for clarity and to underline that in my experience most evohome performance issues tend to be to do with incorrect binding
    I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.

  3. #33
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    I think it's safe to say that greyhound does not have a binding problem.

    In any case I have since done a factory reset, battery out and rebound everything, no change.

    They all report the correct zone name, and can all act individually if the temperatures are set such.
    If I turn all other zones down low - the other valves close within 1-2 minutes- and then I turn one zone up, then that one zone is the correct one that heats up and the others do not.
    So... any other ideas? Maybe something wrong with Evohome itself? Could it be? Is it possible to think such a thought at Honeywell HQ?

  4. #34
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    top brake/rameses: firstly, thank you for taking the time to help.
    I do not, however, think that this is the problem. Otherwise surely some HR92s would say 'unbound' or they would both say the same zone (one incorrectly so). That isn't the case.
    However - I will unbind everything, battery out of everything, battery back in everything, factory reset everything, and rebind everything from scratch, waiting 5 minutes between adding zones.

    If this fixes it, I will be the first to acknowledge you were right. (though I would still question the robustness of such a system if it can be corrupted like this).

    But if I do that, and then repeat my 2 zone test, and get the same undesirable behaviour, will you 1. agree that this behaviour is not as intended, and 2. actively take steps to rectify it?
    If not, please tell me what steps I need to follow in order to prove this is an issue. I will carry out whatever tests you like, but if there is a problem then there needs to be acknowledgment that there is a problem, and then a solution provided.
    Last edited by greyhound1234; 13th March 2015 at 03:20 PM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by greyhound1234 View Post
    top brake/rameses: firstly, thank you for taking the time to help.
    I do not, however, think that this is the problem. Otherwise surely some HR92s would say 'unbound' or they would both say the same zone (one incorrectly so). That isn't the case.
    However - I will unbind everything, battery out of everything, battery back in everything, factory reset everything, and rebind everything from scratch, waiting 5 minutes between adding zones.

    If this fixes it, I will be the first to acknowledge you were right. (though I would still question the robustness of such a system if it can be corrupted like this).

    But if I do that, and then repeat my 2 zone test, and get the same undesirable behaviour, will you 1. agree that this behaviour is not as intended, and 2. actively take steps to rectify it?
    If not, please tell me what steps I need to follow in order to prove this is an issue. I will carry out whatever tests you like, but if there is a problem then there needs to be acknowledgment that there is a problem, and then a solution provided.

    always happy to help

    my approach to these type of situations is to try an paint a picture in my mind and ask lots of probing questions that may come across as obvious/insulting to some!

    a picture tells a thousand words so if you could post some pictures as i requested in post #2 that would be great
    I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.

  6. #36

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    @ All

    I will try to explain.

    At 17 degrees there will still be demand - albeit low. (unless its 17 degrees outside) - so this means that whilst the system has achieved 17 degrees, this does not mean it’s off, for instance the boiler will be operating a water temp of 30 and the Hr92 valves will be open 20 % for example - this keeps the room at your set point - whilst keeping boiler burn to a minimum and energy into the system.

    < at this time the important thing here is Hr92's are open taking the throttled heat>

    If you increase Zone A to 20 degrees you are then making a 100% heat call - which will make the boiler turn up to 70 degrees (dependent on boiler and demand for heat from the rest of the house)- which will go around the 'circuit' - at this point your Zone A valve will more than likely be fully open - but your Zone B valve will still be opened slightly from the previous (and current) operation of trying to keep 17 degrees.

    Zone B will get some heat temporally - and the valve WILL close once it sees that the temp is rising in a way that will jeopardise the 17 degree set point. An amount of heat delivered to the radiator before the valve closes is causing the short temporary overshoot. This is typical and consistent to what you are experiencing with the 1.5 degree ‘overshoot’ but this is both short term and not requiring any more energy that has already been created into the support Zone A. Left alone the zone will go back to 17 degrees. NB: Some customers have incorrectly sized radiators for the room, ie too big or designed, and this can amplify this problem, with a larger mass to cool.

    Please note that if your 17 degree Zone B was set to 10 degrees (ie not calling for heat) – this would not occur as the valve would be fully closed when the heat is injected into the system.

    The Hr92 is designed to operate within its own surroundings it will always find the balance to provide set temperature in the room independently from call for heat from other zone. But the process of finding this balance takes time and it has no awareness of what the other zones are asking for, choosing to operate on what it can experience within the room.

    The zoning system behaviour described above is in contrast to traditional systems where the whole house would rise in setpoint and radiator valves were static and not dynamic in their operation.

    We are sure of the capability of the Hr92 as recently we received EUBAC certification (independent third party testing) endorsing its capability to exercise control, and is best in class with a AA rating.
    HR92_EnergyAA_3.jpg

    I hope this goes a little to explain the behaviour you are observing. Yes there are possible areas for improvement getting even tighter control, but right now these are not possible within this product and as we are demonstrating this is significantly better than previous controls on the market. We are listening – we do read this feedback –and we will aim to improve our products over time.
    Last edited by Rameses; 13th March 2015 at 04:15 PM.
    getconnected.honeywell.com | I work for Honeywell. Any posts I make are purely to help if I can. Any personal views expressed are my own

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rameses View Post
    @ All


    I hope this goes a little to explain the behaviour you are observing. Yes there are possible areas for improvement getting even tighter control, but right now these are not possible within this product and as we are demonstrating this is significantly better than previous controls on the market. We are listening – we do read this feedback –and we will aim to improve our products over time.
    This makes 100% sense to me and accords with my experience. Unless one HR92 could talk to another and say "Hey mate, am about to go up to 21C, I see you are partially open so you may want to close now as you are set lower" then it has to be some heat could get into a radiator in that position but it would need to be set to a temperature that is already reasonably close. I suppose the software in the controller could be programmed to sense all that and send out signals to all to say heat is coming please adjust, but does it need to? As Rameses says it never happens to HR92s set to a low temperature. However, it is very short term. The HR92 that dos not want the heat soon wakes up and closes down. Yes there may be an overshoot but it is temporary, no zone gets too hot or too cold. It evens out as I would expect it to. Unless I have missed something I have an Evohome system that works as I expect it to. I do not experience all the issues that others seem to. Certainly not since 8 weeks ago, having learned what I have on this forum, I factory reset, unbound, wiped the lot and re-installed properly. The only issue I do have is I think the optimisation setting could do with some finer tuning. It does come on sooner that it needs to and occasionally I notice shuts down a little too soon to.

  8. #38
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    Zone B will get some heat temporally - and the valve WILL close once it sees that the temp is rising in a way that will jeopardise the 17 degree set point. An amount of heat delivered to the radiator before the valve closes is causing the short temporary overshoot.
    What you're describing is a typical accidental overshoot. Heat being put into the radiator causing an overshoot AFTER the system has already adapted to the rising temperature (closed the valve). However, I think what we're seeing is a valve that doesn't actually close untill there's a huge overshoot already. I wouldn't call that an accidental overshoot, but a orchestrated overshoot. I think greyhound actually said it doesn't close untill 1.5 degree above setpoint. That's way too late. Unless his room temperature rises 1.5 degree in 10 minutes or so, because that might be too short for the system to adapt in time, but I doubt that's the case. My guess is that the HR92 got more than enough time to close earlier, but chose to remain open untill way above setpoint.

    Left alone the zone will go back to 17 degrees
    what do you expect to happen when it hits 17? The valve opening shortly to stay on or just above 17 and closing in time to prevent creating another overshoot? I expect it to build up the same huge overshoot again to be honest. Which is silly.

    The Hr92 is designed to operate within its own surroundings it will always find the balance to provide set temperature in the room independently from call for heat from other zone. But the process of finding this balance takes time and it has no awareness of what the other zones are asking for, choosing to operate on what it can experience within the room.
    so why is the valve open anyway when the temperature is already above setpoint and it's not asking for heat? This will cause these overshoots when another zone heats up all the time, especially if it's not aware what other zones are doing (why not?!). Seems like a bad design decision?

    and as we are demonstrating this is significantly better than previous controls on the market.
    No. Just no. An antique Honeywell Round performs at least 5x better in keeping a constant temperature than Evohome, that's fact. You can show any certification you want, but it's not going to change what we're seeing in the home.



    Anyway, this was just your response to 1 of the 2 issues greyhound was reporting:
    Zone valves are not instructed to fully close until temperature is 1.5 degrees over the set point. This leads to overshoots on all zones when heat demand is called.
    What about this one?
    Zones will first call for heat when they are at or less than the set point. But once called, zone will continue to call for heat all the way up to 1.5 degrees over the set point.
    Any comments on that?
    Last edited by erik; 13th March 2015 at 05:18 PM.

  9. #39
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    May I ask a simple question? If I change a temperature on the controller it can take 4 to 8 minutes from the revised target temperature to reach the HR92/s. Is the HR92 sensor in constant contact with the Evohome, or is it possible that the HR92 overshoots whilst it is waiting for a response from the controller?

  10. #40
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    HR92 and EvoHome only communicate approx. every 4minutes. It's called the Ramesses II protocol and is designed to minimise interference and preserve battery life.

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