case studies, success stories - positive learning experiences

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  • top brake
    Automated Home Legend
    • Feb 2015
    • 837

    case studies, success stories - positive learning experiences

    it would be interesting to hear of case studies where evohome has been installed and there have been performance issues identified and subsequently corrected; as a learning exercise for all

    we have some experienced professional installers on this forum, and keen self installers whose personal experiences would be of great benefit

    lets try and keep this thread positive, and on topic!
    I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.
  • HenGus
    Automated Home Legend
    • May 2014
    • 1001

    #2
    I will get the ball rolling. My Evohome ’S’ Plan system has a controller; 2 BDR91s (connected to the two motorised inline actuators), a hot water kit and 21HR92s. My Ideal Classic boiler is 14 years old and my HW system is an 250 Litre Unvented OSO cylinder. The system was installed by an Evohome Specialist installer in the summer of 2014.

    Initially, the system worked well; however, I noticed that 3 HR92s hadn’t been locked properly on to the top of the valves and, in two multi-TRV zones, the correct HR92 hadn’t been selected as the sensor ( one, for example was behind a long curtain). A week after the system was installed, the HW valve BDR lost communication with the controller during a thunderstorm. The fault cleared after about 8 hours.

    Heating was turned on in November and, for 6 weeks or so, the system worked well. Early in the New Year, the controller kept displaying actuator communications faults - initially on the HW BDR and then on both the HW and heating BDRs. My installer returned and exchanged both BDR faceplates. The faults went away for about 2 weeks and then returned in late January with a series of communications' faults on both BDRs - lasting anything from 30 minutes to 4 hours at a time.

    With advice from Honeywell it was agreed that the most likely cause of the problem was the incorrect placement of the 2 BDRs. The BDRs were originally installed in a vertical line just inside the airing cupboard. A minimum of 30 cms separation was achieved between the two BDRs and the OSO cylinder - but not from all the associated metal pipework and the junction box.

    The installer returned and re-located the two BDRs to the top of my airing cupboard - at least 30 cms above the HW cylinder and away the heating pressure tank. Both BDR plates were again changed. A few weeks on the system has not displayed any further communications faults.

    It is also worth mentioning that in the original position both BDRs had clear line of sight (about 3ft in distance) with my wall-mounted controller. In their new position, the cylinder sits between the two BDRs and the controller.

    Finally, for those dealing with older un-vented HW cylinders, I sought advice from OSO about HW probe placement. They clearly had given this issue some thought and their advice was that the probe could be safely inserted between the insulation foam and the inner tank surface via the electrical access panel. The probe is then wired in series with the existing cylinder temperature controls to the CS92. With care, the wire to the CS92 can be pushed through one of the access panel wiring points.

    Comment

    • top brake
      Automated Home Legend
      • Feb 2015
      • 837

      #3
      Thanks for sharing, glad to hear the evohome is now performing well for you.
      I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.

      Comment

      • Mavis
        Automated Home Ninja
        • Oct 2014
        • 322

        #4
        My Evohome system was installed in August 2014 by an installer listed on the Honeywell website. I have a 6 year old Ravenheat combi boiler. I had HR92s installed on all rads (6 rooms). We did not have the heating on until around October and noticed 2 radiators only got half warm. Our installer came back and it turned out that he had only replaced the existing TRVs on 4 of the radiators. He replaced the other two (and made a mental note to himself for future installs) and all rads heat up fine now.

        Comment

        • G4RHL
          Automated Home Legend
          • Jan 2015
          • 1580

          #5
          I think what this is showing is that oft is the case that it is the installation that is not up to scratch and not the equipment. It is human nature to quickly blame our equipment when it is us who have not risen to the occasion by getting things right in the first place! In the case of Evohome a better written manual making it clear what is needed, and why, would be an improvement. In any other case of equipment failure I am not so sure a manual would help. It might! "RTFB" is the expression. But it is only fine if the B is worth reading and informative. I have said before that I have learned far more from these pages than the installation manual tells me. My Evohome equipment 3 months in is sound but works better because of what I have read here. Any other equipment failure I may have is only age related!

          Comment

          • gl3n
            Automated Home Jr Member
            • Feb 2015
            • 31

            #6
            My install was pretty easy, I had a British Gas Internet connected thermostat (pre Hive) that broke.

            Combined with the boiler physically shaking due to the thermostat being set to 25 to warm my sons room and the rest of the house at the same time!!! It made me look for better solutions to just heat a room at a time.

            The result was this system, 15 radiators in 12 zones. I have already seen a 40% reduction in gas use over the last month.

            Along with a much nicer system that allows flexible control I am very happy.

            I just removed the British Gas unit and wired in the Honeywell one in the same place. Fitted all TRV's and fiddled a bit to understand the system.

            I have lots of set points as the heating in some rooms is set to 25 still but not for hours. The boiler now does not shake or rattle as it is not running flat out and life with the Honeywell system is really good

            Comment

            • erik
              Automated Home Guru
              • Feb 2015
              • 244

              #7
              Originally posted by G4RHL View Post
              I think what this is showing is that oft is the case that it is the installation that is not up to scratch and not the equipment.
              Working in IT I know that at least 90% of problems are human error and not system error. However, the other 10% can be REAL problems as must be treated as such. We're trying to keep things positive/on-topic here, so I won't go into details. Just wanted to reply to that remark in your post, G4RHL.

              Comment

              • The EVOHOME Shop
                Site Sponsor
                • Dec 2014
                • 483

                #8
                I have seen some videos on YouTube by 'techydiy' that some people should really avoid! - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtM...wrdLEZNwLkj-2Q

                A couple of videos show BDR91 installations completely incorrect and blatantly ignoring the installation instructions! Why people do these videos without getting facts correct first!?

                Comment

                • erik
                  Automated Home Guru
                  • Feb 2015
                  • 244

                  #9
                  I've only looked at the videos posted by the Honeywell account (in Dutch). They are very clear and I must compliment Honeywell for them.

                  Comment

                  • top brake
                    Automated Home Legend
                    • Feb 2015
                    • 837

                    #10
                    Originally posted by The EVOHOME Shop View Post
                    I have seen some videos on YouTube by 'techydiy' that some people should really avoid! - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtM...wrdLEZNwLkj-2Q

                    A couple of videos show BDR91 installations completely incorrect and blatantly ignoring the installation instructions! Why people do these videos without getting facts correct first!?
                    Ouch

                    Those videos are pretty poor, challenge set to do better!

                    Edit: there are video clips and animations in the youlearn training, perhaps it's time to publish these as short clips too
                    Last edited by top brake; 16 March 2015, 08:45 PM.
                    I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.

                    Comment

                    • greyhound1234
                      Automated Home Jr Member
                      • Mar 2015
                      • 33

                      #11
                      As my installation ended positive in the end, I will add my 2p here.
                      Initially, I was shocked at the lack of control, and overshooting behaviour I encountered. I was very concerned and assumed it was faulty.
                      So naturally I did loads of fiddling with it to work out how well it held a certain temperature, what the behaviour of other zones was etc. This didn't help.

                      One thing I found particularly surprising coming from a simpler thermostat, that it would be possible to get heat demand when all zones are above the set point. But this is possible with a proportional integral controller (i.e. TPI) if subject to a couple of large set point perturbations. As my feel for how the system behaves has improved, I have altered how I use the system and things are better.

                      Some general observations
                      - the more you change the temperature, the worse the control gets.
                      - If you change the set point up by more than a few degrees, you will get an overshoot before it settles down.
                      - For a given set of zone temperatures, it takes a few hours for the system to settle down, each zone to find the correct valve setting, and the boiler demand to stabilise.
                      - Other zones will then overshoot again if one zone is increased again in this 2 hour 'settling period'. This will be most evident in rooms that are small and therefore heat up faster.
                      - After the settling period of a zone, it won't then increase when other zones are set higher.
                      - Once this happens, the control is very good.
                      - It is better to schedule in a series of stepped rises that one big step. It is also better for thermal comfort to use slightly lower set point but held for longer, compared to a big increase for a short time.

                      So basically, the more you fiddle the worse it gets. If you are perturbing the equilibrium the algorithm will take a few hours to settle down. During this period, you may get overshooting. You have to be 'gentle' with it.

                      I have made a few suggestions for how Honeywell could avoid this effect (caused by a build up of the 'integral' part of the P-I algorithm), but it is easily avoided if you don't make huge whacking changes in set-point.

                      For example, now after a few hours all zones are in equilibrium and I can achieve lounge - 18.0 as set, bedroom 16.0 as set. Perfect.
                      Also comfort is way better than the old thermostat, which keeps the Wife happy!

                      Energy use I will report back when I have a year of data. I average 4000 kWh/yr gas usually. But getting control of the upstairs was the main selling point for me, which has been achieved.

                      Comment

                      • erik
                        Automated Home Guru
                        • Feb 2015
                        • 244

                        #12
                        -never mind-

                        Comment

                        • G4RHL
                          Automated Home Legend
                          • Jan 2015
                          • 1580

                          #13
                          In essence that is my experience, stop playing around with it and it settles down. I find now that adjusting one zone on its own has little or no effect anywhere else. Consistently though now my Honeywell "round" thermostat reads 1c higher than the TRV does and they are along side each other at the same height. For example in the room I am in now the TRV reads 19C (set for 18), the Honeywell round reads 20 and a thermometer but elsewhere in the room reads 20.5. The radiator is cold. Must be my body heat! Wish I only used 4,000 kWh p.a. gas! And gas is only used for heating and hot water.

                          Comment

                          • top brake
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Feb 2015
                            • 837

                            #14
                            Originally posted by G4RHL View Post
                            In essence that is my experience, stop playing around with it and it settles down. I find now that adjusting one zone on its own has little or no effect anywhere else. Consistently though now my Honeywell "round" thermostat reads 1c higher than the TRV does and they are along side each other at the same height. For example in the room I am in now the TRV reads 19C (set for 18), the Honeywell round reads 20 and a thermometer but elsewhere in the room reads 20.5. The radiator is cold. Must be my body heat! Wish I only used 4,000 kWh p.a. gas! And gas is only used for heating and hot water.
                            the HR92 is calibrated to display temperature at waist/chest height, and the round thermostat is designed to be installed at waist/chest height

                            Hence the difference

                            What height is your thermometer?

                            Pics please
                            I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.

                            Comment

                            • G4RHL
                              Automated Home Legend
                              • Jan 2015
                              • 1580

                              #15
                              Originally posted by top brake View Post
                              the HR92 is calibrated to display temperature at waist/chest height, and the round thermostat is designed to be installed at waist/chest height

                              Hence the difference

                              What height is your thermometer?

                              Pics please
                              That answers the point. The thermometer is waist height. Something else learned.

                              Comment

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