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Thread: case studies, success stories - positive learning experiences

  1. #11
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    As my installation ended positive in the end, I will add my 2p here.
    Initially, I was shocked at the lack of control, and overshooting behaviour I encountered. I was very concerned and assumed it was faulty.
    So naturally I did loads of fiddling with it to work out how well it held a certain temperature, what the behaviour of other zones was etc. This didn't help.

    One thing I found particularly surprising coming from a simpler thermostat, that it would be possible to get heat demand when all zones are above the set point. But this is possible with a proportional integral controller (i.e. TPI) if subject to a couple of large set point perturbations. As my feel for how the system behaves has improved, I have altered how I use the system and things are better.

    Some general observations
    - the more you change the temperature, the worse the control gets.
    - If you change the set point up by more than a few degrees, you will get an overshoot before it settles down.
    - For a given set of zone temperatures, it takes a few hours for the system to settle down, each zone to find the correct valve setting, and the boiler demand to stabilise.
    - Other zones will then overshoot again if one zone is increased again in this 2 hour 'settling period'. This will be most evident in rooms that are small and therefore heat up faster.
    - After the settling period of a zone, it won't then increase when other zones are set higher.
    - Once this happens, the control is very good.
    - It is better to schedule in a series of stepped rises that one big step. It is also better for thermal comfort to use slightly lower set point but held for longer, compared to a big increase for a short time.

    So basically, the more you fiddle the worse it gets. If you are perturbing the equilibrium the algorithm will take a few hours to settle down. During this period, you may get overshooting. You have to be 'gentle' with it.

    I have made a few suggestions for how Honeywell could avoid this effect (caused by a build up of the 'integral' part of the P-I algorithm), but it is easily avoided if you don't make huge whacking changes in set-point.

    For example, now after a few hours all zones are in equilibrium and I can achieve lounge - 18.0 as set, bedroom 16.0 as set. Perfect.
    Also comfort is way better than the old thermostat, which keeps the Wife happy!

    Energy use I will report back when I have a year of data. I average 4000 kWh/yr gas usually. But getting control of the upstairs was the main selling point for me, which has been achieved.

  2. #12
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    -never mind-

  3. #13
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    In essence that is my experience, stop playing around with it and it settles down. I find now that adjusting one zone on its own has little or no effect anywhere else. Consistently though now my Honeywell "round" thermostat reads 1c higher than the TRV does and they are along side each other at the same height. For example in the room I am in now the TRV reads 19C (set for 18), the Honeywell round reads 20 and a thermometer but elsewhere in the room reads 20.5. The radiator is cold. Must be my body heat! Wish I only used 4,000 kWh p.a. gas! And gas is only used for heating and hot water.

  4. #14
    Automated Home Legend top brake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G4RHL View Post
    In essence that is my experience, stop playing around with it and it settles down. I find now that adjusting one zone on its own has little or no effect anywhere else. Consistently though now my Honeywell "round" thermostat reads 1c higher than the TRV does and they are along side each other at the same height. For example in the room I am in now the TRV reads 19C (set for 18), the Honeywell round reads 20 and a thermometer but elsewhere in the room reads 20.5. The radiator is cold. Must be my body heat! Wish I only used 4,000 kWh p.a. gas! And gas is only used for heating and hot water.
    the HR92 is calibrated to display temperature at waist/chest height, and the round thermostat is designed to be installed at waist/chest height

    Hence the difference

    What height is your thermometer?

    Pics please
    I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by top brake View Post
    the HR92 is calibrated to display temperature at waist/chest height, and the round thermostat is designed to be installed at waist/chest height

    Hence the difference

    What height is your thermometer?

    Pics please
    That answers the point. The thermometer is waist height. Something else learned.

  6. #16
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    Back to the theme of this section.

    I installed Evohome late November 2014 initially just installing 12 HR92s and using the control panel to operate them until the relays were installed professionally for hot water and heating. As I learned later what I was doing at first was all wrong because the control panel was the controller of temperature and not each valve.

    I used a Honeywell nominated installer to wire in the relays. He had installed Evohome heating before but not heating and hot water. He left it to me to do the binding as had no experience of that. Initially hot water would not heat up. My installer came back and was puzzled as the wiring was correct. He phoned Honeywell who within seconds knew the answer. The sequence of binding was wrong. It should be temperature sensor, hot water relay then heating relay and in that order. Yes if you follow the configuration template and or follow the order of things in the manual but it does not make it clear its a must. A line to say "If you do not bind in this order the system will not work properly" would have been invaluable.

    Much was learned from this forum, and still is, and eventually the proper sequence of setting up was followed as advised in these pages (again put far better than the manual does for any newcomers). Being patient and letting it settle down is worth an awful lot. Keep fiddling and the system never gets a chance to learn. Another lesson from these pages.

    I hit problems with internet access at the beginning as it would not work in roaming mode. Honeywell online support was next to useless with advice suggesting I had the wrong app on one occasion. Eventually it suddenly came alive and I do not know why.

    All worked until earlier this year until right at the time that Honeywell had issues with their server when again I lost roaming access but this time I could receive data in the app but could not submit changes if roaming. Issue eventually resolved with Honeywell's assistance resulting in deleting the old account and starting afresh. I still do not know what really caused it. I suspect now it may have been something my end with the router but the problem has not returned. It works now albeit in roaming mode it can be slow even with a good signal.

    By then, also from these pages, I had learned it is worth while using all six set points in a schedule even if some are the same so that if anybody does an override and forgets it will only run to the next set point.

    Following that being put right, and following advices here I did a factory reset of everything batteries out etc. and then gradually bound in sequence ensuring that the HR92s were the sensor. That is many weeks ago and other to increase a temperatue when needed I have not fiddled. The system, left to itself settles down well and gives a far better balanced comfort.

    Also learned is that too much obsession watching the temperatures indicated leads to frustration that things are not working when they are. For example, a room set to 20 gradually comes up to that and the HR92 will eventually for a time read more, it could go up to 21.5 but mostly if I look at a separate thermostat (the new Honeywell round for example) or a room thermometer they are reading the right temperature for the comfort desired even though it may be different from the HR92. The reason I have just learned is the HR92 is apparently designed to see the temperature at its level whereas the Honeywell Round is looking at a waist height temperature.

    In maintaining temperature the boiler is told to come on and off very frequently (set cycles in the settings don't seem to do anything to change this) but once a balance is achieved it settles down. However, opening a door or window can upset this balance until you have given it time to settle down again.

    Overall I am a very satisfied customer, Honeywell's normal support desk not wonderful but Honeywell people in this forum invaluable. For new comers do make sure you understand the sequence of setting up, which as said ought to be clearer, look at advices in these pages on the best way to do things but above all be patient, let it develop or learn and stop fiddling despite the urge to do so. Overall, if a user has not had a system like this before, you will appreciate the tremendous difference in comfort level and balanced heat around your home. Also, the ability to turn up the heat in advance of getting home on a cold night as you leave a restaurant!

    Plus, like Mavis, if you are away from home and note on your iPad husband has upped the temperature and forgotten to put it back again you can discreetly turn it off remotely even if hundreds of miles away!

    I have found optimisation does not seem to work as well as you would expect. By now, in my home, it should know it only takes 30 to 35 minutes or so to get up to temperature but will usually switch on 55 or 60 minutes beforehand. Also it switches off too early such that a room has cooled more than you would want before the set time.

    The system is good. A newcomer will read of frustrations on the part of some. With many the problems seem to be resolved and it does point to user or installation errors as opposed to equipment failures. I suspect some properties by their nature of construction will exhibit different times to warm up or cool down, radiator sizes may be too small or too large for a room or property and I imagine this will give some headaches. Optimisation could be more finely tuned than it is, the manual needs improving particularly for those not technically minded, I think the system is prone to cut in and out more often than is necessary to maintain a heat level.

    Overall the future is bright, it's not "Orange" it's "Evohome"!

  7. #17
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    I started out in 2011 with 8 zones, 9 HR80's and V1 of the Evohome, connected via an R8810A (Opentherm) interface to a Remeha boiler. Ideally I needed another 2 zones but unfortunately V1 was limited to 8 zones. I was told by Honeywell that it should be possible to run one boiler from two Evohome controllers and even got a second set to enable this, but never got around to installing this.

    Things that kept me busy for some time were the balancing of some radiators, as in three instances I have two radiators connected to one HR80 (mounted on a heating manifold meant for underfloor heating). In the first couple of months I got 3 DTS92's to replace the temperature measurement on the HR80's in two bigger rooms and the bathroom. I also got an extra HR80 to change one of the dual radiator zones into two separately controlled radiators.

    After these initial changes the system worked pretty flawless, apart from the peculiarities that are mentioned on this forum. The only real problem I ran into was when I installed a wireless alarm unit next to the aforementioned heating manifold on which 4 HR80's were mounted; that resulted in a couple of very hot rooms due to the fact that the TRV'sw opened and never closed again.

    After installation I saw a reduction from ~4500m3 to <3000m3 per year, but I have to add that these numbers are also influenced by the fact that at the same time the older VR boiler was replaced by the new HR Remeha. So I am not sure how much of the savings are on account of the Evohome, but my gut feeling is that the ROI of our solar panels is better

    The level of comfort however is _way_ better than it used to be; I am now able to heat rooms as and when needed, independent of the temperature in the living room as was the case with the previous thermostat.

    Battery use is adequate, I run the TRV's and DTS92's with rechargeables (Imedion) that last at least one heating season.

    Due to the addition of a home office in the garage this February I really needed an extra zone so I contacted Honeywell about the two-Evohomes-one-boiler solution. Their reaction after some prodding and poking: buy the new Evohome. Much easier. So I upgraded the system to the new Evohome. I must admit that the possibility of an Internet connection was also a big selling point.

    The new system now consists of 11 heating zones, 11 HR80's, 2 HR92's, 3 DTS92's, an internet gateway and the new Evohome, still connected via the R8810A to the Remeha boiler.

    Again the new system seems to perform without problems. I still have my gripes about the lack of insight in the workings of the Evohome (WHY is the boiler heating while each and every zone is at its temperature) but meanwhile it seems to do a good job in keeping eleven zones at the temperatures I want while using less gas. Add to that the additional control from my Smart phone and I find I have a great system.

  8. #18
    Automated Home Legend top brake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody View Post
    I started out in 2011 with 8 zones, 9 HR80's and V1 of the Evohome, connected via an R8810A (Opentherm) interface to a Remeha boiler. Ideally I needed another 2 zones but unfortunately V1 was limited to 8 zones. I was told by Honeywell that it should be possible to run one boiler from two Evohome controllers and even got a second set to enable this, but never got around to installing this.

    Things that kept me busy for some time were the balancing of some radiators, as in three instances I have two radiators connected to one HR80 (mounted on a heating manifold meant for underfloor heating). In the first couple of months I got 3 DTS92's to replace the temperature measurement on the HR80's in two bigger rooms and the bathroom. I also got an extra HR80 to change one of the dual radiator zones into two separately controlled radiators.

    After these initial changes the system worked pretty flawless, apart from the peculiarities that are mentioned on this forum. The only real problem I ran into was when I installed a wireless alarm unit next to the aforementioned heating manifold on which 4 HR80's were mounted; that resulted in a couple of very hot rooms due to the fact that the TRV'sw opened and never closed again.

    After installation I saw a reduction from ~4500m3 to <3000m3 per year, but I have to add that these numbers are also influenced by the fact that at the same time the older VR boiler was replaced by the new HR Remeha. So I am not sure how much of the savings are on account of the Evohome, but my gut feeling is that the ROI of our solar panels is better

    The level of comfort however is _way_ better than it used to be; I am now able to heat rooms as and when needed, independent of the temperature in the living room as was the case with the previous thermostat.

    Battery use is adequate, I run the TRV's and DTS92's with rechargeables (Imedion) that last at least one heating season.

    Due to the addition of a home office in the garage this February I really needed an extra zone so I contacted Honeywell about the two-Evohomes-one-boiler solution. Their reaction after some prodding and poking: buy the new Evohome. Much easier. So I upgraded the system to the new Evohome. I must admit that the possibility of an Internet connection was also a big selling point.

    The new system now consists of 11 heating zones, 11 HR80's, 2 HR92's, 3 DTS92's, an internet gateway and the new Evohome, still connected via the R8810A to the Remeha boiler.

    Again the new system seems to perform without problems. I still have my gripes about the lack of insight in the workings of the Evohome (WHY is the boiler heating while each and every zone is at its temperature) but meanwhile it seems to do a good job in keeping eleven zones at the temperatures I want while using less gas. Add to that the additional control from my Smart phone and I find I have a great system.
    great feedback thanks, good to hear an example of the openTherm bridge being used
    I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.

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