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Thread: Comms fault - Hot Water - Actuation

  1. #31
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    Maybe also swapping the two relays over (with the necessary reprogramming) would show definitively whether the problem is within the particular relay or not?

    Personally I have a suspicion from all the various postings e.g. about electrical storms affecting the BDR91 that the settings stored in its non-volatile memory can get corrupted, and doing a factory reset fixes this (at least until the next time).

  2. #32

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    The comms errors do not have to relate to whether a BDR should be on or off - the modules communicate regularly to each other and normally require several messages to be missed before an error is flagged. So just because there are no switch points at that time does not mean that Evo and the BDR are not communicating with each other.
    Sensible Heat
    SensibleHeat.co.uk

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SensibleHeatUK View Post
    The comms errors do not have to relate to whether a BDR should be on or off - the modules communicate regularly to each other and normally require several messages to be missed before an error is flagged. So just because there are no switch points at that time does not mean that Evo and the BDR are not communicating with each other.
    Anything that uses wifi is subject to the occasional disruption. However, as yet, no one has explained to me why it can take some hours for a FAULT to RESTORE, and why the system can run normally for months and then start playing up? My other concern is that the Gateway does not report this as an error so, in winter, a home owner could come home to frozen/burst pipes. If re-setting the controller is a short-term fix then this needs to be a remote re-set capability. I have a Fritz!Box modem/router that I can monitor/control from anywhere in the World - including a full re-set and/or firmware upgrade. A periodic diagnostics report would also be of value. The Fritz!Box can, if I so wish, send me a daily report.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenGus View Post
    As yet, no one has explained to me why it can take some hours for a FAULT to RESTORE.
    In the case of the HR80/HR92, we have been told that when it doesn't hear from the controller the valve actuator goes into a power saving mode and the period between attempts increases in a geometric series, 4 mins, 8 mins, 16 mins, 32 mins etc, so recovery will take as long as the outage lasted. Maybe the BDR91 does something similar?

    Quote Originally Posted by HenGus View Post
    My other concern is that the Gateway does not report this as an error so, in winter, a home owner could come home to frozen/burst pipes. If re-setting the controller is a short-term fix then this needs to be a remote re-set capability. I have a Fritz!Box modem/router that I can monitor/control from anywhere in the World - including a full re-set and/or firmware upgrade. A periodic diagnostics report would also be of value. The Fritz!Box can, if I so wish, send me a daily report.
    In 2015 this has to be good practice. Even a TP-Link wireless access point costing all of 25 has similar features. AND you can save/restore the configuration files over the web! Wake up, Honeywell.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenGus View Post
    Anything that uses wifi is subject to the occasional disruption. However, as yet, no one has explained to me why it can take some hours for a FAULT to RESTORE, and why the system can run normally for months and then start playing up? My other concern is that the Gateway does not report this as an error so, in winter, a home owner could come home to frozen/burst pipes. If re-setting the controller is a short-term fix then this needs to be a remote re-set capability. I have a Fritz!Box modem/router that I can monitor/control from anywhere in the World - including a full re-set and/or firmware upgrade. A periodic diagnostics report would also be of value. The Fritz!Box can, if I so wish, send me a daily report.
    I understand your system components are being sent to the factory for test and when the results are available you will be notified of the findings, hope this helps

    If you are concerned about frost protection it is best practice to install wired frost protection kit in vulnerable areas

    Bear in mind the Evo is connected through a gateway and the TCC account and error messages can be configured at the TCC App (screen grab below) image.jpgTemporary loss of comms self heal and aren't notified. Complete loss of comms are notifiable.

    There haven't been any formal requests for the type of logging and reporting you mention, anything is possible!
    Last edited by top brake; 24th March 2015 at 10:59 PM.
    I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SensibleHeatUK View Post
    The comms errors do not have to relate to whether a BDR should be on or off - the modules communicate regularly to each other and normally require several messages to be missed before an error is flagged. So just because there are no switch points at that time does not mean that Evo and the BDR are not communicating with each other.
    It would be interesting to understand more about the protocols used. The communications are not to every component every 4 minutes for example. This can be seen if you reset the controller by removing the batteries. Once the system comes back up, some radiator valves will "re-appear" almost immediately particularly if there is a request for heat in that zone at the time, whereas others will not appear for hours (you can force them by simply pressing the button on the valve). So as the system seems to be designed around eliminating communication when it is not needed, I couldn't see why the controller would notice a problem with a BDR relay when there is no active demand for heat at the time. Having said that I realise the radiator valves are battery powered but the relays are mains. Which brings me back to why it would be good to understand "when" communication takes place to the various components

    For a number of reasons I cannot progress this thread at this time
    1) The problem went away after I power cycled one of the relays. As the problem was happening just before power cycling, and hasn't happened since, I personally think any conversation about relay placement is irrelevant
    2) I realise the placement of the water relay is not compliant with the recommendations. However, it is in the best compromise position in the airing cupboard at this time and as I have validated signal level, and also experimented with it placed outside of the cupboard completely and still saw errors, I am a bit frustrated to reach a support status of "move it or move it" even though I have eliminated it's location from being an influencing factor.
    3) I have mentioned other factors such as the fact it worked for a month without issue, but no viable explanation of why it should suddenly start to be erratic (8 fault/restore events in 3 days). Or why a power cycle would have any influence. Or why one of the relays makes a high pitch noise and the other one doesn't. And I have explained that I have been very careful to eliminate double binding.


    So in summary, I have to wait to see if the problem ever comes back. If it does, I will swap the two relays over and "rebind" and see what that does. At this time I am tempted to think that a relay got into a "confused" or "corrupt" state which is why a power cycle fixed it.
    Last edited by jonstatt; 25th March 2015 at 05:54 PM.

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