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Thread: HR92 reprograms itself and BRD91 binding corrupted

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    Default HR92 reprograms itself and BRD91 binding corrupted

    Here's a strange thing.

    After six weeks trouble-free use since the last re-installation I discovered one of the rad valves had redesignated itself and the Living Rm E zone did not work. The HR92 screen in question said SPARE ROO but I wasn't able to determine which Spare Room it thought it was. Up to this point all the other seven zones were working OK.

    So I did a factory reset on the HR92, added a new zone and bound the HR92 to it, copied the schedule across and deleted the old Living Rm E zone. I also changed the order in which the zones were displayed.

    Now none of the zones would call for heat. The BRD91 RF check was OK but its binding was evidently corrupted. So I had to do a factory reset and re-bind it, which prompts the following questions:

    Why should this have been necessary? What other system changes will cause the BRD91 binding to be corrupted? Will Honeywell treat this as a bug which needs fixing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpener View Post
    Here's a strange thing.

    After six weeks trouble-free use since the last re-installation I discovered one of the rad valves had redesignated itself and the Living Rm E zone did not work. The HR92 screen in question said SPARE ROO but I wasn't able to determine which Spare Room it thought it was. Up to this point all the other seven zones were working OK.

    So I did a factory reset on the HR92, added a new zone and bound the HR92 to it, copied the schedule across and deleted the old Living Rm E zone. I also changed the order in which the zones were displayed.

    Now none of the zones would call for heat. The BRD91 RF check was OK but its binding was evidently corrupted. So I had to do a factory reset and re-bind it, which prompts the following questions:

    Why should this have been necessary? What other system changes will cause the BRD91 binding to be corrupted? Will Honeywell treat this as a bug which needs fixing?
    Have you raised this as a case with consumer support?
    I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.

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    Quote Originally Posted by top brake View Post
    Have you raised this as a case with consumer support?
    No, life is too short, in the limited time available yesterday I concentrated on fixing the problem.

    The spontaneous re-assignment of the HR92 was new to me but there have been many and varied reports of the BDR91 doing unexpected things. I also remembered that deleting or renaming zones was known to cause trouble, and I have now found the reference, it was originally reported here on 1/12/15 http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/vbull...re-do-you-have and I think worth quoting in full (my emphasis)

    Quote Originally Posted by courcirc8 View Post
    After hours on fightings related to evohome bugs, I found a very interesting note on the Domoticz site:

    "You should be able to check the firmware version by doing a quick tap on 'settings' on the evohome main screen followed by a long tap (arround 20s) on 'device settings'. The system should then display an info screen with the device id and application software version followed by a date etc."

    Mine is V25 from 16 janv 2014 and here is a brief description of the bugs I found:
    - Renaming a zone in the installation menu corrupts the database
    - Deleting a zone corrupts the database.

    - Activating the temperature compensations make erroneous readings (HR92 uses their own temp sensor, no more evo's unit even if activated)
    - Activating optimisation overrides the 2nd time temperature by the first time temp.

    From what I could read on this forum, people does not have the same problems as me, so:
    What is you firmware version?
    Thanks for your reply!
    Eric
    As this software version is still current and Honeywell have a stated policy of not releasing bug fixes because there are no bugs why would I want to report it to Consumer Support?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpener View Post
    No, life is too short, in the limited time available yesterday I concentrated on fixing the problem.

    The spontaneous re-assignment of the HR92 was new to me but there have been many and varied reports of the BDR91 doing unexpected things. I also remembered that deleting or renaming zones was known to cause trouble, and I have now found the reference, it was originally reported here on 1/12/15 http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/vbull...re-do-you-have and I think worth quoting in full (my emphasis)



    As this software version is still current and Honeywell have a stated policy of not releasing bug fixes because there are no bugs why would I want to report it to Consumer Support?
    i have not experienced these issues and am not aware of other examples.
    It is not easy for any manufacturer to fix issues that have not been reported formally, it would be appreciated if you would take the time to do so, thanks
    Last edited by top brake; 30th March 2015 at 10:10 AM.
    I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpener View Post
    No, life is too short, in the limited time available yesterday I concentrated on fixing the problem.

    The spontaneous re-assignment of the HR92 was new to me but there have been many and varied reports of the BDR91 doing unexpected things. I also remembered that deleting or renaming zones was known to cause trouble, and I have now found the reference, it was originally reported here on 1/12/15 http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/vbull...re-do-you-have and I think worth quoting in full (my emphasis)



    As this software version is still current and Honeywell have a stated policy of not releasing bug fixes because there are no bugs why would I want to report it to Consumer Support?

    Sharpener - Just to be clear - the above text is from a post by another user and not Honeywell.

    As for the stated policy of bug fixes. I will reiterate we perform updates on the Gateway and via the App. When and where necessary. Likewise we do not 'update' for the sake of updating.

    In the instance you descibe above - I am inclined to agree with you as, because as you have reset the system all information that would have been useful has now been removed and therefore support will not be able to assist in working through the process of elimination and identifying. However in this instance your case has been logged for reference.

    In most of the instances and the 'symptoms' you identify above - this has come from

    - incorrect binding of BDR91 / system
    - some other process skip

    Please get in touch if you have this problem occur again - or you are able to re-create.
    getconnected.honeywell.com | I work for Honeywell. Any posts I make are purely to help if I can. Any personal views expressed are my own

  6. #6
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    Hi Rameses,

    Just for completeness

    * I had already emailed Support, and am grateful for the advice and replacement items I have received in the past from yourself, Support and other users of the forum. I quoted the link to courcirc8's posting so that both he and I can draw some comfort that we are not imagining things.

    * I subsequently discovered that another zone's HR80 (Spare Room 4b) would no longer accept commands from the controller so it's probably fair to assume that this was the zone whose identity had been assumed by the HR92. Also there were a few comms failures logged to this HR80 though in each case there was a Restore as well, this sometimes happens when moving the controller about the house. These error messages can all be retrieved when I am next there.

    * Since I am not aware of any great built-in diagnostic capabilities (though there may be some hidden features e.g. the info screen mentioned by courcirc8 above) I don't know what other data could have been retrieved at the time, however when half the living room is stone cold on a Saturday evening nobody is going to wait for a response from Consumer Support telling them what to try, when re-binding the affected peripherals is the obvious thing and did indeed work.

    * As previously mentioned, I already had a way of controlling my heating system over the internet before I installed the evohome and so have not needed or wanted to buy a Gateway and the app, maybe I am in a tiny minority. But I cannot for the life of me see how any future improvements to these could overcome corrupted entries in the binding table in the controller. The fact that the BDR91 had been working happily as a boiler relay for six weeks right up to the time I re-installed the HR92 and deleted the old zone seems a strong pointer that this is where the problem lies.

    HTH

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpener View Post
    Hi Rameses,

    Just for completeness

    * I had already emailed Support, and am grateful for the advice and replacement items I have received in the past from yourself, Support and other users of the forum. I quoted the link to courcirc8's posting so that both he and I can draw some comfort that we are not imagining things.

    * I subsequently discovered that another zone's HR80 (Spare Room 4b) would no longer accept commands from the controller so it's probably fair to assume that this was the zone whose identity had been assumed by the HR92. Also there were a few comms failures logged to this HR80 though in each case there was a Restore as well, this sometimes happens when moving the controller about the house. These error messages can all be retrieved when I am next there.

    * Since I am not aware of any great built-in diagnostic capabilities (though there may be some hidden features e.g. the info screen mentioned by courcirc8 above) I don't know what other data could have been retrieved at the time, however when half the living room is stone cold on a Saturday evening nobody is going to wait for a response from Consumer Support telling them what to try, when re-binding the affected peripherals is the obvious thing and did indeed work.

    * As previously mentioned, I already had a way of controlling my heating system over the internet before I installed the evohome and so have not needed or wanted to buy a Gateway and the app, maybe I am in a tiny minority. But I cannot for the life of me see how any future improvements to these could overcome corrupted entries in the binding table in the controller. The fact that the BDR91 had been working happily as a boiler relay for six weeks right up to the time I re-installed the HR92 and deleted the old zone seems a strong pointer that this is where the problem lies.

    HTH
    Ok - fair enough - let us know if it happens again. We have logged this.
    getconnected.honeywell.com | I work for Honeywell. Any posts I make are purely to help if I can. Any personal views expressed are my own

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rameses View Post
    Please get in touch if you have this problem occur again - or you are able to re-create.
    In the interests of science I have now tried to re-create this fault, without success.

    I have re-named 6 of the 8 zones as I needed to do this anyway. Binding OK.

    I have also deleted and re-created the zone which was captured by the HR92 (Bedroom 4b), and also deleted and re-created an unaffected zone (Bedroom 1b), all without affecting the other bindings including the BDR91.

    I noticed yesterday that the zone which had been captured was at the time subject to a Comms Fault which had persisted from 10.58 on Weds 18 March until I re-bound it the following Monday.

    HOWEVER as of this morning two new unexpected issues

    i) the many pages of Fault Log going back to mid-March have now vanished. A new Comms Fault (Bedroom 4a) was logged at 0046 today and eventually restored itself at 0840. All other fault log entries have disappeared, why is this?

    ii) the newly-created Bedroom 1b zone has assigned itself to the custom program without being told and at some point in the last 48 hours the custom program (which had been in use for 3 weeks or more) has cancelled itself.

    So I continue to wonder what is going on inside the software.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpener View Post
    In the interests of science I have now tried to re-create this fault, without success.

    I have re-named 6 of the 8 zones as I needed to do this anyway. Binding OK.

    I have also deleted and re-created the zone which was captured by the HR92 (Bedroom 4b), and also deleted and re-created an unaffected zone (Bedroom 1b), all without affecting the other bindings including the BDR91.

    I noticed yesterday that the zone which had been captured was at the time subject to a Comms Fault which had persisted from 10.58 on Weds 18 March until I re-bound it the following Monday.

    HOWEVER as of this morning two new unexpected issues

    i) the many pages of Fault Log going back to mid-March have now vanished. A new Comms Fault (Bedroom 4a) was logged at 0046 today and eventually restored itself at 0840. All other fault log entries have disappeared, why is this?

    ii) the newly-created Bedroom 1b zone has assigned itself to the custom program without being told and at some point in the last 48 hours the custom program (which had been in use for 3 weeks or more) has cancelled itself.

    So I continue to wonder what is going on inside the software.

    (Sorry to ask)

    Is Bedroom 4a a new zone or the old one? evohome can 'look' for old Hr92s unless they too have been wiped. But this error will be a one time event and evohome will only worry about what it see's or know it should see (once its gone through a full schedule ensuring all touch points are refreshed)

    With regard to you custom program - when you say cancelled itself can you help clarify please - Thanks
    getconnected.honeywell.com | I work for Honeywell. Any posts I make are purely to help if I can. Any personal views expressed are my own

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rameses View Post
    (Sorry to ask)

    Is Bedroom 4a a new zone or the old one? evohome can 'look' for old Hr92s unless they too have been wiped. But this error will be a one time event and evohome will only worry about what it see's or know it should see (once its gone through a full schedule ensuring all touch points are refreshed)
    Bedroom 4a is an old zone, with an HR80UK, and has not been affected. Bedroom 4b is the zone (also with an HR80UK) that while in Comms Failure appears to have been "captured" by the HR92 that was previously bound as Living Rm E.

    I don't fully understand your comment above particularly the bit about "refreshing touch points" but, as others have said, it is clear that a much fuller explanation of the data structure and exactly what modifies it and when would be useful. Though I am beginning to wonder if the behaviour I observe is not actually deterministic and so cannot be described by conventional rules at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rameses View Post
    With regard to you custom program - when you say cancelled itself can you help clarify please - Thanks
    The Custom schedule has Bedrooms 2, 3, 4a and 4b assigned to it. I use it more or less permanently so these rooms are not heated except when my son or other visitors are staying (this is why I want it restored after a power failure). It was operative when we got here on 2nd April and on 4th April I noticed that this was no longer the case though I had not cancelled it. It was while investigating this that I noticed also that Bedroom 1b (which was the zone deleted and re-created as part of the experiment described in posting #8) had assigned itself to the Custom schedule even though this was not wanted.

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