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Thread: Can't bind HR92s

  1. #1
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    Default Can't bind HR92s

    Hello everyone (first post),

    I have attempted to bind several HR92s without (recent) success. I managed it before and read the manual several times so feel I know what I doing. I even called Honeywell who made a good job of reading the manual to me - so I learned nothing new there.
    The problem: During binding, either as a new zone or a fresh 'guided config' the evohome controller tells me binding is successful, however I do not get a success message on the HR92 itself. The Evohome relays and schedule is operating well but I have no control over the HR92's since they are not bound.
    I have gone through guided config 5 times now and beforehand always clear the memory of the relays and the HR92's by holding the 'Binding' button for 15 seconds or so.
    I think the Hot Water, Evohome Control and Relays are working but the HR92's are not.
    Background info: I have 3 heating circuits controlled by relays wired to motorised valves for upstairs, downstairs and hot water. There is only 1 downstairs zone using the Evohome control temp sensor. Upstairs I have 6 HR92's split into 4 zones. Hot water circuit is working well.
    - During the guided config, I have said I have no boiler relay. Anyone know if that is correct?
    - The upstairs zones are set to Application = Zone Valves / Sensor = Remote devices sensor
    - I know there is some comms between the HR92's and the control because it's successfully reading the temp. I think it also call on the boiler when a zone gets cold but the HR92's are not opening and closing with the schedule.
    More clues:
    - After installation (when the HR92's behaved) I was never able to turn the dial to start the boiler so I have little confidence there is 2 way comms.
    - The problem started when the upstairs circuit fired during the night even though there was no call for heat from any sensor (controller, HR92 or hot water).

    Any ideas?

  2. #2
    Automated Home Legend top brake's Avatar
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    make sure the wireless devices are at least 1 metre apart when you are binding

    have you looked at the youlearn training? it has some video embedded
    I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=top brake;23623]make sure the wireless devices are at least 1 metre apart when you are binding


    Just for ref here. I am just in the process of having a complete new (large) heating/hot water system installed and Evohome is managing 2xHeating and 1xHotWater zones and 12 rads in multiple Evo zones.

    I bound the 12 x HR92's to the EvoHome Controller (new WiFi model) with everything within 30 cms from me. All binding was instant - not even a 'tad' delay. I didn't use the Guided - was quicker and easier to auto create 12 evo Zones then go and edit and bind them.

    Definately want direct access to the Evohome controller though to get all the data out - hope the "new" API stuff comes soon.... IFTTT and Mobile app is ok for controlling, but there is nothing for analysis and linking to other home energy systems using own software.

  4. #4
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    Hello Top Brake, many thanks for your reply. I had registered for the youlearn course but haven't found time to start them yet. Admittedly I hadn't rushed to start because reading the course scehdule it looked like another way of absorbing the manuals (if you didn't know them already). I will try to get around to that though.
    Other news: I heard from Honeywell today. They said the Evohome system was never designed to operate more than 2 circuits (hot water + heating). Not very high tech if you ask me. None the less, I have 'tricked' the system to operate 3 circuits by binding with HR92's then changing the application from Radiator Valve to Zone Valve. Sadly this only works for 3 zones on 1 upstairs circuit instead of my desired 4.
    The installer has also been in contact with Honeywell and they plan to use a Evohome Thermostat instead of using the controller as temp sensor for the downstairs zone.
    In the long run, I fear neither my trick or what the installer is proposing will be a satisfactory solution. Once the thermostat is installed I will provide an update if anyone is interested.

  5. #5
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    Hi Jon
    Firstly, i speak with no degree of authority or experience of the Evohome system (being only just ahead of you in the whole process) but i thought i might be able to help recalling my experience.

    My original intention was to use my Evohome system to control my existing S plan system (two motorised valves - Heating and Water) and then introduce Zones one at a time as i could afford the HR92's. However my attempt to create the first zone with an HR92 was causing binding issues not dissimilar to what you seem to be experiencing. Having spoken with Richard (The Evohome Shop) it transpired I was getting confused between the two basic modes of the Evohome system, i.e either controlling a simple 2 motorised valve system (which you dont have of course) or a fully zoned system where the 'heating' BDR91 is used to directly fire the boiler. Once i realised this, I reconfigured the system, removing the heating motorised valve (disconnecting it and then manually locking it open). I re- ran the guided configuration.... Control Boiler? Yes, Control stored HWC? Yes, I then created each zone as needed, setting the heating type as Radiator Valve. This worked well and i now have 8 zones running.

    System Summary
    Boiler control - Wireless Relay Box
    Stored Hot Water - Hot Water only valve
    Bathroom - Radiator Valve
    Lounge - Radiator Valve
    Hall - Radiator Valve
    etc.

    It took me a while to understand that, yes, without the motorised valve in use, the hot water will always try to flow round the house when the pump is running but if none of the radiators is calling for heat, there is no issue.

    Unless i misunderstand your set up, you have an upstairs heating zone controlled by a BDR91 (opening and closing the motorised valve) and within that circuit you have sub zones being controlled by HR92's. I think this is possibly confusing the Evohome controller in the same way my original set up was.

    As you have the ability to independantly control each radiator in your house surely there is no need to preserve the distinction between heating either upstairs and/or downstairs as you do now.

    As to random boiler firing when there's no heat demand? I get that too as do others having read their posts.

    Hope this helps!

  6. #6
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    Hello Mr. B, when you say "2x Heating" is that 1x upstairs circuit & 1x downstairs circuit?

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    Hello Fen Tiger, thank you for your reply. I'm glad to see you understand my system and what I'm trying to accomplish. Honeywell also suggested tying the upstairs and downstairs circuits together but I see this as a massive backward step in heating efficiency. This house has at least 35 radiators and rads aside, I don't like the idea of heating ceiling voids and towel rails just because I want to keep the living room warm.

  8. #8
    Automated Home Legend paulockenden's Avatar
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    Surely if all of the HR92s are shut in one of your zones there will be no water flow into that zone? So whether the main valve is open or closed won't make any difference.

    P.

  9. #9
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    JonT - correct. there are 2 CH (rads) zones.

    But - the Evohome, out of the box, is not good at this at all. It's "mindset" is in the old simple way of doing things with just a single CH zone and a single HW zone using either a 3-way valve or 2x2-way valves. The world has moved on and having the granular options of indvidual rads controlling themselves (HR92s), but still managing the overall system heat production/loss is where it needs to be.

    Re the idea of just leaving 2-way zone valves locked open misses the point for large properties. For small ones, I agree, it makes no difference just pumping around everything all the time - the heat loss in that circumstance is minimal.

    The reason we split the single CH loop into 2 was that the rads at the end of the single loop received water temperature way below the first - simply because of the size and shape of the house and the very long pipe runs.
    Even with 2 CH zones the pipe loop runs are still long.

    So the most efficient way to manage this is to break it up with 2-way valves and unique shorter pipe runs. This way the hot water from the boiler is ONLY routed to the pipework that needs it. It is not simply pumped around the unecessary pipework loosing heat enroute - that is very inefficient.

    Where the Evohome Controller - which has all the required data - is lagging (yep - a pun) behind is that it won't let multiple HR92s be in 1 EvoZone and ANY of them call for heat - that way if there's only 1 rad in the whole house that still wants some hot water it is delivered to that rad, in just 1 CH zone, and thereby in the shortest and most efficient way.

    The Honeywell chaps have hinted at "stuff coming" and I hope this area will be addressed - or at least exposes all the data so that we can manage it ourselves. I'll wait a bit longer to see what is forthcoming and until then a more simplistic layout is the only choice.
    Last edited by MrB; 21st October 2015 at 02:43 PM.

  10. #10
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    Paul : normal is 2 pipe with the rads on a bypass loop attached in parallel to the flow & return pipes - so the hot water would still flow all the way around irrespective of individual rads being closed.

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